“Widow’s Bay” asks Matthew Rhys to play perhaps the most difficult role in a town full of eccentrics: the normal guy. As Mayor Tom Loftis, he is determined to convince the residents of an isolated New England island that centuries of curses and supernatural folklore are nonsense, while also trying to revive the local economy by bringing tourists to a place with spotty cell service and little connection to the outside world. Unfortunately for Tom, the increasingly strange events around him suggest the locals may have been right all along.
Created by Katie Dippold, with Hiro Murai directing five of the season’s 10 episodes, the Apple TV horror comedy depends on actors who can move between absurdity and genuine terror without changing the basic reality of their performances. Rhys is surrounded by an eclectic ensemble that includes Kate O’Flynn, Stephen Root, Dale Dickey, Kevin Carroll, K Callan and Jeff Hiller, with Hamish Linklater and Betty Gilpin among the season’s guest stars. Much of the comedy comes not from characters delivering jokes, but from how seriously the residents of Widow’s Bay respond to increasingly ridiculous circumstances.
Finding actors capable of maintaining that balance fell to casting directors Allison Jones and Emily Buntyn, and the results earned them an Emmy nomination of their own. “Widow’s Bay” received 19 nominations overall, including six for acting. Rhys is nominated for Lead Actor, Root for Supporting Actor, O’Flynn and Dickey for Supporting Actress, while Linklater and Gilpin earned guest acting nominations. The series is also up for Outstanding Comedy Series, with Dippold recognized for writing and Murai for directing.
Jones and Buntyn approached the ensemble without much interest in filling the island with recognizable names simply for the sake of having them. Jones, whose career includes “The Office,” “Parks and Recreation” and “The Good Place,” describes the cast more simply: “These are not fancy, fancy actors. They’re just good actors.” That philosophy opened the door to some inspired choices, from seeing the deadpan comedy Rhys could bring after years of dramatic roles to taking a chance on British actress O’Flynn, whose unusual audition immediately separated her from other contenders for Patricia.
Just as important was having filmmakers and a studio willing to trust those choices. Jones and Buntyn repeatedly credit Dippold and Murai for knowing what they wanted while giving actors room to surprise them. Apple, they say, resisted the pressure to chase bigger names. “It is a pleasure when a studio doesn’t hover over you and say, ‘No, you need a name. You need a name. You need a name,’” Jones says. For a series populated by people who need to feel as though they have spent their entire lives together on this strange island, that freedom proved particularly valuable.
Awards Focus spoke with Emmy-nominated casting directors Allison Jones and Emily Buntyn about assembling the residents of “Widow’s Bay,” discovering another side of Matthew Rhys and taking a chance on Kate O’Flynn. They also discuss why comedy remains harder to cast than drama, trusting first instincts and what separates great casting from simply assembling a group of great actors.
Awards Focus: Congratulations on the Emmy nomination. What was your reaction when you heard the news?
Emily Buntyn: Very, very, very, very happy. [Laughs] We didn’t know this show was going to do this. None of us did. The scripts were freaking good, but we didn’t really know it was going to hit in the way it did. Usually things don’t exceed expectations, and this really did. The morning of the nominations, I was very happy and pleased. I was shocked. It’s my first nomination. I called Allison right away. It was a great morning.
Allison Jones: I’ve had many nominations, I’m happy to say, because I’m old. [Laughs] But believe me, each time, and everybody will tell you this, it’s just as good as the other. Emily was doing it in real time. She was like, “Oh my God, Hamish! Oh my God, Betty!” And I was screaming.
Buntyn: We kept going. We were like, “Hiro! Katie! Stephen! Oh my God!” Nobody expected this at all.
Jones: Good, but very niche. Again, the scripts were great, but who knows? I never know what the vibe of a show is going to be. I was always like, “God, I wish I had a show like ‘Severance’ that all the cool people were watching.” And now I think we do. [Laughs]
AF: Do you think part of the show’s appeal is that it rewards a second viewing, where you start noticing all the visual details and Easter eggs you may have missed the first time?
Jones: The rewatch, for sure. Somebody sent me all these little books that were in the bookcases where we didn’t see the titles, and those things were insanely good and funny. And the games in the hotel. I don’t know if it was Neil or if it was…
Buntyn: There’s one or two.
Jones: Yeah. When you rewatch, you start noticing things in the background. Especially her party, Sunset Cocktails.
Buntyn: I didn’t notice this on the first viewing, and then somebody pointed it out to me. It’s very quick. When Kate O’Flynn’s character is dancing, it’s kind of in a montage scene and everybody’s dancing around her. There’s a quick second where you see their shocked faces in between. The camera’s panning around this circle and they’re all dancing, and then it’s quite literally a second where you see everybody standing still with their mouths open.
Jones: With the antlers. I need to rewatch that, too.
Buntyn: Definitely.
AF: It’s interesting hearing you both talk about the surprise success of the show. When you started casting, was anyone already attached? Was Matthew Rhys already in place?
Jones: No. We had been hired well before production to look for Tom Loftis. Matthew was not available at the time, but I know Katie was aware of him because we were interested in him for this amazing horror script she had during COVID, which COVID just screwed up. She couldn’t get it made. Matthew was a contender for that. I think he got “Perry Mason.” [Laughs]
We put a lot of great people on tape. Apple was never saying, “We need a movie star to make this show,” which is also to their credit. Make a show with real people who really fit the storytelling, and it’s fantastic. Nobody else was attached. We had a lot of good people that we put on tape, including Chris Fleming, who was really good. Everybody on the show is a fan of Chris Fleming. Then when that shaman part came up, I read it and was like, “It’s gotta be Chris. Come on.” [Laughs]
Buntyn: No one else.
Jones: Boston Casting got all these great local faces. Let me tell you, it is a pleasure when a studio doesn’t hover over you and say, “No, you need a name. You need a name. You need a name.” It’s a lesson in taking chances and having faith in your creative team, which many people don’t seem to do.
AF: Anyone who’s followed Matthew’s work knows how good he is dramatically, but we hadn’t really seen him do this kind of comedy. When did you realize he could deliver the deadpan humor the role needed?
Jones: I think it was a stunning surprise how good he was. Not that we didn’t think he could do it, but the way that he became “Widow’s Bay.” You never know. For me, it’s always an act of faith. The only time I really knew he was good was when Katie started emailing and saying, “Oh my God, Matthew Rhys is so good.” I think it was just a surprise. You hope for the best, and his little moments are fantastic.
Buntyn: I think hearing him read in the table reads, because we would…
Jones: That’s it. The table reads! He was on Zoom. They were hilarious.
Buntyn: The table reads were absolutely hilarious. You know it’s good when the actors are cracking up, seeing Stephen Root laughing, Kevin Carroll laughing.
Jones: Because the table reads didn’t have the horror element yet. They had the script, but they didn’t have Hiro and Katie’s beautiful direction, the music, the cinematography and the locations. I’m from that area, so I can tell you those people are weird and haunted. [Laughs] A lot of these people off the coast of New England, they’re not your San Francisco folks. They’re a fascinating bunch.
Katie really captured the whole vibe of a small New England village, and the Dale Dickey gossip. She did, didn’t she? And, as someone said, just magnificent storytelling. Really, truly. You’re interested in the story. You can’t wait for the next episode.
AF: You mentioned that part of New England, and Kate O’Flynn obviously had to master a very different accent. What did her audition look like, and what were you looking for when casting Patricia?
Jones: There’s nothing like getting a script that says, “We just want real people and real faces.” That happens about once every decade for me. One was “The Office.”
It was all credit to her manager, Tony Lipp, who had just signed her because he represents one of her friends in Britain. I think they said, “Would you look at her tape and see if you want to sign her?” He just put her on tape and sent it. We were like, “Wow. She’s interesting.”
My first thought is always, “Nobody’s ever going to get her. She’s too subtle and she’s too weird. And she’s British.” But she ultimately did a perfect American accent.
For me as a casting person, we had to retape her to give her more scenes. Katie and Hiro liked her immediately. I was terrified that the studio would say, “Uh-uh. She hasn’t done it.” But Katie and Hiro wanted her immediately. When she read it, she physicalized the entire character, Patricia, by holding everything she was holding close to her body and just barely speaking. Just very subtle.
Buntyn: We had a lot of great women for that role. A lot of them had their own takes, but you could kind of see the similarities. She just went a completely different way. I’m glad that ultimately Apple came on board.
Jones: I think they did. We needed a couple more scenes to see her do it, but from the get-go, I was like, “They’re not going to get her. It’s just not going to happen. She’s too cool and too subtle.” Then they did. Katie and Hiro, of course, Apple respected who they wanted completely.
AF: I heard you two cracked up quite a few times during her audition.
Buntyn: Oh, yeah. I actually just sent Allison the clips last night. We found them. We had to start and stop a few times because she was making me laugh so much. I try not to break because I read with actors when we audition them, and she just made me laugh from the get-go. Then it was making her laugh. It was a really fun audition.
Jones: That was not one of the parts that really had any laugh-out-loud moments. She created this character. For me, and it’ll date me, she’s very Elaine May, which is very hard to find. The greatest comedic writer, actress, director of all time, and she’s still living. I know Katie is an Elaine May fan.
We just kept thinking, “God, the scripts were so good.” We knew that actors were putting 100 percent into their auditions. They really thought about them. Sometimes it’s not that way. The sides just don’t give you anything. I don’t know how she did it. She completely, 100 percent invented Patricia that way. We had the greatest women, many of whom could have done the part, but it was quite a find and also a testament to taking a chance. What can I say?
AF: Matthew, Kate and Stephen may form the core, but the entire ensemble makes “Widow’s Bay” feel believable. Were there particular qualities you wanted across the cast?
Jones: First of all, the great faces. The great non-actor faces. [Laughs] Also, Jeff Hiller. Oh my God. God bless him, he had to work on a very tight personal schedule. He had a book he was promoting.
We’ve seen a lot of these people in many auditions. I’ve known K Callan since “The Golden Girls.” That really dates both of us. It’s where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. I guess that sounds trite, but they bring total reality to the universe. Again, it’s not often we get to do that in casting. We all had fun, and we’re always just praying they pick the right people. They did. [Laughs]
Buntyn: It’s their faces at first, but we’ve read them so many times that you really get to know who can pull off a reaction like nobody else. Stephen Root can pull off a reaction, or Jeff Hiller can do a switch of tone.
Jones: Stephen can switch that tone from very dramatic to hilarious in one line reading.
Buntyn: It’s amazing. So happy for him, too, that he got nominated.
AF: Was there an actor you felt you had to fight hardest for during the casting process?
Jones: My terror was Kate O’Flynn because she needed a visa from England. I don’t think we really had to fight for anybody. There were long discussions and decisions on every single one. Dale Dickey was kind of a no-brainer. [Laughs]
Buntyn: She opened her mouth and read those lines, and it was like…
Jones: That audition involved a lot of smoking for the poor person and a lot of coughing. What happened, Emily, on the audition because of what Zoom does?
Buntyn: Oh, yeah. In the post-COVID era, with people being in different places, we use Zoom auditions a lot. Zoom has this feature, which can be good at times and not so good in others, where it will block out any noise that isn’t speaking or a normal tone of speaking. The incessant coughing that was needed for the scene, Zoom was blocking it out.
AF: Oh, interesting.
Buntyn: So we kept having to have the actors do it again. [Laughs] It’s this deep, guttural old cough. It was very strange.
Jones: Dale also had stiff competition. That was a fun role. We got some women who were great, who had been around forever, which I love. They still have it. They show up, they still have it.
Overall, it’s a lesson in your first instincts. Almost everybody here, other than Matthew, who was the result of what you would call a search where so many people have to weigh in, were the first instincts of Katie and Hiro. We hoped they got approved and put some of them on tape again with notes.
Hiro and Katie gave the best notes to actors, even on some of the small roles.
Buntyn: They really did.
Jones: Precise, beautiful notes, which is what actors want. They don’t get it most of the time.
Buntyn: They never get it.
Jones: It’s a guessing game for them, and they can’t guess what you need for a specific role. All the best casts I’ve been able to put together are a lesson in your first instincts, frankly. Especially with comedy.
AF: Which is more difficult to cast on a show like this: the comedy or the drama?
Jones: Comedy, without a doubt. Somebody who really thinks it and feels it, and it’s in their DNA, but they’re not trying to show it. They’re not “funny.” They really get the comedy of the moment.
I could just watch those people sitting around the table in the office at the town hall with Matthew Rhys leading a meeting. I could watch that all day. To see Jeff Hiller, and to see K Callan going to sleep while she’s reading the phone messages…
AF: That actually reminds me a little of “Parks and Recreation,” and obviously there’s an association with Katie. Was there ever a thought to bring in someone from that cast? Aubrey Plaza, for instance, has a pretty good horror face.
Jones: Oh, she does. I think she’s too famous. I think we have to first go to the people that we don’t want to… We don’t want to do the stunt-casting thing. I don’t think it’s necessary.
Another lesson is that these are not fancy, fancy actors. They’re just good actors. So many actors have this in them. More in movies than in TV, they don’t want to give people a chance. I kind of get it because it’s box office, but still, Emily and I, 90 percent of what we do is trying to talk studio people into things. [Laughs]
On comedy especially, I go on instinct and faith, and it’s hard to explain that to somebody. It’s so hard to explain that to somebody. But that is what I go on, especially in comedy.
I’m talking way more now than I usually do in anything because nobody asks casting anything. This is great. Thank you. [Laughs]
AF: No, of course.
Buntyn: We’re mainly big fans of the show, so we’re like, “We need a self-help group.” [Laughs]
Like Allison said, it was to Apple’s credit that they allowed Katie and Hiro to make the show that they wanted to make. Katie and Hiro were very available and open to everybody, the creatives as well as the actors. Because it was so collaborative in that way, I think that contributed to a lot of the show’s success. A lot of times you do have outside forces weighing in and pulling things in a different direction that the creatives necessarily wouldn’t go. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t.
Jones: There’s a lot of overthinking in all of this. A shocking amount of overthinking, which then leads to very compromised decisions. This one wasn’t that way. It was like, “Holy shit, this woman is perfect for this.”
A lot of stuff didn’t get watered down at all. That’s why I was stunned when I saw it with the music, the DPs, the way they shot it and how scary it was. I knew it was funny. I did not know how scary it was going to be and how truly dramatic it was.
AF: When one of your recommendations gets the role, there’s obviously validation in that. Beyond that, what’s the moment that makes you proudest? Is it seeing them together for the first time? The reviews? An Emmy nomination?
Jones: Emily will have another answer as well. On this show, number one was how crazy the reviewers were for it. Reviewers who you expect to trash everything. I have a lot of work on a lot of shows that get trashed, just because I’ve done TV since way before any of you were born. [Laughs]
When I first saw the reviews, it was like, “Oh my God.” Or when I first saw the teaser trailer. That’s what hit me. Emily, I think I sent it, or you sent it to me.
Buntyn: We sent it around. We were like, “Oh my God. This is good.”
For me, if it’s an ensemble like this, it’s seeing them on screen for the first time together. You just see it all. That can happen at a table read as well, but when you see the final product, that’s when it hits.
A lot of times Allison and I will say on anything we work on, whatever we think of it or not, “Oh, the casting was good.” [Laughs] We’re always very proud of the ensembles we put together. But this one, I think for me, it was the teaser trailer, getting excited for it, and then after that first episode aired, seeing them all together and it exceeding our expectations, which were already high.
Jones: They were already high, but you don’t express that because you don’t want to jinx it.
Buntyn: Of course. It was a very, very pleasant surprise.
Jones: You never know the vibe. When I saw the first teaser trailer for “Weapons,” it was like, “Oh my God.” Amy Madigan is this good? [Laughs] And really cool. We don’t get that very often.
AF: Casting is finally getting its flowers, including recognition at the Oscars. As voters yourselves, what separates great casting from simply a great ensemble?
Jones: It’s funny because someone once asked me the difference between Best Ensemble Cast and Best Casting. An ensemble cast is the product after it’s already been made. Casting is actually the writing of it. [Laughs]
To me, the best casting is fresh and interesting. Really, real people you want to watch. And talented. I don’t know. Again, it’s an instinct question.
Buntyn: This was my first year voting, and in my whole career, I’ve only worked with Allison. My taste and the way I see things are very much developed from her.
I’m kind of the same. An interesting cast is either people we’ve never seen before or something like Matthew Rhys, where he’s only done drama and these very intense things, and then you see him in a comedy and it clicks. I think it’s the fresh factor for me, where you’re just like, “Whoa, that was really cool casting. Who were they?” Then you look them up.
Jones: It’s not stunt casting where the top eight people are all fancy actors. It’s real casting. Really going out there looking for people who do things that you don’t expect. I get that especially with comedy because comedy works when you don’t expect it, frankly, a lot of the time. I’ll see a trailer and it’s like, “Oh man, that’s a great cast.”
AF: If you had to pick one scene that made you think, “We nailed it. This is a great cast,” what would it be?
Jones: I’m just going to pick one scene. The whole cast sitting around the table in the pilot was amazing. But the scene was “Coffin Talk,” which is when Matthew Rhys was talking to Hamish Linklater in the coffin. Kate O’Flynn came in and said she forgot her purse or something. Then Matthew had to tell Richard Warren, Hamish, that he wasn’t going to be able to let him out of the coffin. Hamish and Matthew said, “Fuck me.” “Fuck you.”
So, for me, it was “Coffin Talk.” [Laughs]
Buntyn: As far as nailing the casting, I think probably the scene in the town hall when they’re all around the table.
Jones: Which was an audition scene.
Buntyn: Yeah, I believe it was an audition scene. But God, there are so many. Another favorite from the whole season, and it’s very quick, is actually Episode 9 when Stephen Root and Kate O’Flynn’s characters are telling everybody to calm down in the shelter. Then it just pans to Jeff Hiller saying, “This place is a death trap! Run for your lives!” Oh my God.
I’m somebody who doesn’t laugh out loud at things if I’m alone. I love comedy, obviously, but I’m not a big laugh-out-loud person. I can think something’s hilarious and just not laugh out loud. This show had me laughing out loud. It’s a testament to all the actors. There are so many, but that’s the one that comes to mind.
AF: It was a joy talking to you both. Good luck!
Buntyn: Thank you so much.
Jones: Thank you so much.