Jeff Hiller is difficult to miss. He stands 6-foot-5, wears thick-framed glasses and, in his Emmy-nominated appearance on “Pluribus,” spends most of his screen time squeezed into a cyclist’s jersey and spandex shorts. Put him across from Rhea Seehorn for nearly eight uninterrupted minutes and there was little chance Larry was going to simply blend into the background.
What makes the performance work, however, is how little Hiller relies on any of that. Larry is gentle, reassuring and almost immediately trustworthy, exactly the kind of person Carol might choose when she wants an honest answer from the collective consciousness that has absorbed nearly everyone else on Earth. Hiller understands why. “I think the concept and the reason I was cast is they wanted someone who looks nice,” he told Awards Focus, before adding a more practical observation: “If there’s one thing that knocks you down a peg, it’s spandex.”
That brief appearance in “Pluribus” has earned Hiller an Emmy nomination for Outstanding Guest Actor in a Drama Series, just one year after he won Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Comedy Series for playing Joel on HBO’s beloved “Somebody Somewhere.” It also comes during a particularly good stretch for Hiller. Along with “Pluribus,” he has a much larger role in another Apple TV hit, “Widow’s Bay,” the horror comedy created by Katie Dippold and starring Matthew Rhys.
Hiller’s “Pluribus” performance is a great example of how much can be asked of a guest actor in very little time. Larry appears in the episode “Please, Carol” as Carol tests the limits of the Others’ inability to lie, eventually asking the question she probably should not ask: Did Helen actually like her books? Larry knows the answer because Helen briefly became part of the collective before she died, meaning he has access to memories that were never intended for Carol.
The resulting scene is essentially a seven-minute two-hander between Hiller and Seehorn, and the simplicity of it is deceptive. Larry loves Carol because the collective loves Carol. He wants to protect her from what Helen thought, but he cannot lie to her. At the same time, every interaction serves the Others’ larger desire for Carol to eventually join them. Hiller describes the challenge as playing “love that had an agenda,” a deceptively concise explanation for everything happening behind Larry’s exceedingly pleasant face.
Hiller had considerably more time than most guest actors get to figure all of that out. He and Seehorn spent four hours rehearsing the scene with writer Alison Tatlock and director Zetna Fuentes, an experience the longtime theater and improv performer remembers as an opportunity to simply “nerd out” over the material. The preparation becomes even more remarkable considering Hiller had not been given the full episode, much less the series, and was still learning exactly how the Hive Mind worked.
Awards Focus spoke with Hiller about building Larry from such limited information, finding the complicated emotions beneath the Hive’s seemingly serene exterior and what he learned from working so closely with Seehorn. The incredibly funny actor also reflected on the difficulty of guest acting, his current run between “Pluribus” and “Widow’s Bay,” fan theories about the Hive Mind and whether he hopes Larry returns for Season 2.
Awards Focus: You’re not exactly an Emmy rookie anymore, but this nomination is very different from your last one. What was your reaction when you first heard?
Jeff Hiller: I was announcing the Emmys this year. I don’t know why. [Laughs] You don’t announce the guest actor category, so I didn’t announce my own category. Afterwards they were like, “Can you take a picture here?” or whatever. I was doing that, and then my manager was there and he came up and was like, “Congratulations, you got nominated.” And I said, “For what?” [Laughs]
AF: Well, that would be a good question, right? Because you’re on two amazing shows right now.
Hiller: Yeah, exactly. I was thinking, “Somebody Somewhere” is no longer around. How could I get nominated again? [Laughs] But anyway, it was exciting and it was a surprise. I guess it’s funny because you’re right, I’m not a rookie, but I still feel very green.
AF: At what point did you recognize the significance of this six or seven-minute part? Was it before you filmed, or not until you actually saw it on screen?
Hiller: I met with the director, Zetna Fuentes, the writer Alison Tatlock and Rhea Seehorn, my scene partner. Have you heard of her? [Laughs]
We went to Rhea’s house on a Sunday, and she does not have a lot of time. It was very generous of her to do that. Alison wrote the episode, and she was like, “I kind of wrote this like a little play, like a one-act play.” She has a background in playwriting, and she said, “You never get to have a seven-minute-long scene between two people in a TV show. This is very rare.”
That’s kind of when I was like, this is rare. This is so cool that we get to have this really long scene where we just talk to each other back and forth.
But if I’m really honest, I didn’t know that was when Carol was learning that we couldn’t lie. I assumed she already knew we couldn’t lie. It wasn’t until I watched the show that I was like, “Oh, this is how she’s learning that the Hive Mind can’t lie,” because I didn’t get a copy of the script of even my episode. I was just sent my scene. [Laughs] It was very, you know, you gotta do some work. [Laughs]
AF: There’s a lot going on in those seven minutes. It’s not just the exclamation point on the fact that you can’t lie. You’re also revealing this devastating information about whether Helen actually liked Carol’s books. Since you’re essentially dropping in for this one scene, how much of that larger arc did you understand when you were filming it?
Hiller: They did eventually tell me that Helen was her wife, and I understood that was obviously going to be very difficult to reveal, but they didn’t tell me who her wife was. Then on set, I saw a photo of her and Miriam Shor, and I just go, “Is Miriam Shor playing your wife?” [Laughs]
But that was really what was fun about the rehearsal, finding the moments when, because my character can’t lie, the Hive can still try to protect her and try to shield her. They want to because they do love her. They really do love her.
So it was finding those little beats in this really dense scene of when to try to protect her and when to just be loving her. The language of her books, Alison said, “No, that really does make you tingle. The words to you are better than Shakespeare. They’re so great.” That was a really fun challenge to do.
AF: It’s interesting to hear you use the word “protect.” Rhea has to go through this emotional free fall right in front of you, while you have to play it very differently. What were the guiding notes in terms of how Larry should come across? He’s not emotionless because, as you said, the Hive does love her.
Hiller: Right. We love her and we want to protect her. That’s why we got to rehearse that scene for four hours. In television, that never happens. I’ve never done that before or since. Usually it’s just a blocking rehearsal where the rehearsal amounts to, “You sit there.” [Laughs]
We talked a lot about that because I hadn’t seen the first three episodes or seen a script or anything. I wasn’t sure, is the Hive Mind sort of zombies? I didn’t really understand exactly what their emotional interiors were like.
We spent a lot of time discussing that, and yes, I love her. I do want to protect her. But ultimately, we want her to join us. We want her to be part of us. There’s this biological imperative to do that.
We also had a lot of discussion about Miriam joining the Hive Mind right before she died in the pilot, so we had her knowledge in our mind. We were able to realize, because she would know how difficult it would be to tell Carol that this book, “The Bitter Chrysalis,” is kind of meh. [Laughs] We had the emotional awareness to try and protect her from that knowledge. But at the end, we still have to be honest.
AF: Going back to that four-hour rehearsal, how was that time with Rhea spent? Was it about getting the tone right, building chemistry or something else? What was it like preparing this seven-minute scene together?
Hiller: I remember that night when we were packing up to go home, she was like, “Oh God, I love nerding out like this.” And I was like, “Me too.” [Laughs]
We both come from theater backgrounds, so there was some getting to know you. She laid out a spread. [Laughs] There was gazpacho, there was cheese and stuff. It was very civilized. I was like, “Oh, I should have brought flowers or something.”
There was some chemistry. There was a lot of downloading the idea of the show, the concept of the show, and that was primarily from Alison. Then Zetna would ask us things. It could be as pedestrian as, “Can you try a pause right here?” or as complicated as, “Imagine she is someone that you knew when you were four and now you’re seeing her again,” or whatever.
What I would say the primary thing was, was nerding out. What was so great about Rhea is that she would try different things. She wouldn’t announce that she was trying these different things, but she would just try, “Okay, now I’m going to really be angry and kind of bulldoze through this,” and see how my response would change.
I found that incredibly helpful and also just fun. I did improv for 25 years, so the one thing I know how to do is listen and respond.
Even on the day when we were shooting it, we would shoot the whole thing in sequence. We wouldn’t just do bits like you sometimes do. We would do the full seven-minute scene, and the cameras were very unobtrusive. We would do it different ways and try different things.
A lot of times on TV, if you flub a line or say something weird, you might just pause and then go back into it. We never did that. We were reading it like a play in front of an audience, which was really great.
AF: What would you say was the biggest adjustment you made in your performance from those first reads to what we ultimately see on screen?
Hiller: I was trying to convey love, but you wanted love that had an agenda.
When I auditioned, they said, “You’re this character’s father, and you’re trying to tell her that her mother didn’t like her artwork, her paintings.” That is very different than being a Hive Mind who still loves her.
With being a father, I would have allegiance to my wife, her mother, but ideally my biggest allegiance is to my child. Whereas in this particular thing, there’s not really that much allegiance to Helen. It’s really all to Carol.
And it’s not allegiance. There’s a little bit of, you know, at the end of the day, I stole her eggs. [Laughs]
Although I didn’t know that at the time. But Alison was very clear that the final objective is to get her to join the Hive, and that is what all of this is truly about.
AF: I imagine when you’re preparing for a role, you normally want to understand a character’s backstory. This is so unique because, yes, you’re Larry, but you’re also representing this collective. How did that change your normal preparation?
Hiller: When I was preparing it, I didn’t know that I was a collective or anything. I only had the scene. And really, when you talk about guest star work, people deserve an Emmy Award. [Laughs] Guest stars, because it is so difficult.
Just socially and logistically, to pop into a community of people and try and break in while you’re there and not make too much of a fuss, but also not be too much of a wallflower either.
I didn’t have any of that knowledge until we had that rehearsal, so the preparation was very different than it normally would be. And you’re right, the backstory kind of didn’t make any sense. I met Karolina very quickly on set and she was like, “We’re the same person.” [Laughs]
And I was like, “Weird. Yeah, we are.” [Laughs] Every once in a while you’d be like, “Wait, how does this work? Oh, yeah, I’m the same person as the ladies who were having sex with Samba.” [Laughs]
You gotta give it to Vince Gilligan. He created this dense, dense idea that the more you think about it, the more onion skins you unfold.
AF: I know better than to assume costume choices are random. [Laughs] I also don’t think it’s easy to find a bike jersey for someone who’s 6-foot-5. When you only have a short scene, everything about you communicates something. What were you told about the intention behind Larry’s costume?
Hiller: In the script it said, “Larry is a kind-faced man.” It didn’t say anything about the jersey stuff. [Laughs] I might not have auditioned. No, I would have. I’ve done way worse. [Laughs]
I think the concept and the reason I was cast is they wanted someone who looks nice. I was just coming off playing Joel, and I think maybe in that sense I seem nice.
We’re in the scene with the actual mayor of Albuquerque, and she’s like, “Not you. No politicians.” [Laughs] She wants honesty.
Even though it’s silly, what I say is going to be exactly what any of the other Hive Mind people would say. In fact, it is what all the other Hive Mind people are saying. They’re all aware of this conversation just as much as me.
But I think for Carol, it was important that she just have someone to look at who is not intimidating. And if there’s one thing that knocks you down a peg, it’s spandex. [Laughs]
AF: That actually makes a lot of sense. I could see a scenario where anytime Carol needs to have a difficult conversation, she wants a friendly face. I’m sure you don’t know, but would you like to come back and do more with Larry?
Hiller: No, I never want to work with Vince Gilligan again. [Laughs]
No actor does. [Laughs] I would go back in a heartbeat.
If I’m stepping away from the actor who just wants a job and into just an artist, it doesn’t make a lot of dramaturgical sense for me to keep coming back. But if they want me to, I trust their dramaturgical sense way more than mine, and I would happily, happily come back.
It was a great set. Albuquerque is really cool. And just the density of the storytelling. The fact that for one scene we could rehearse for four hours, and I was still asking questions, that’s a good sign for the writing. [Laughs]
AF: You touched on this earlier, but it sounds like you have an even greater appreciation now for guest actors and the fact that there is an Emmy category recognizing that work. What have you taken away from your own experience doing those roles?
Hiller: Okay, so this is not my first time being a guest actor. [Laughs]
Before I got “Somebody Somewhere,” I was nothing but… I don’t know if you know about the tiers, but guest actor is sort of the fanciest tier. There’s co-star and things like that. Those roles are so much harder to audition for, so much harder to do and so much harder to be on set for.
With Larry, I could sit in the scene and really enjoy it and understand the arc of it and take moments to ask questions and things like that. But when you’re walking on playing the waiter, nobody wants to answer your questions. [Laughs]
I have such tremendous respect for actors who are there and present and able to say their line and not cause too much of a distraction, but also get across the point that needs to be told in the storytelling.
When you’re a guest actor, you need to see what your role is in the overall scene. A lot of times you don’t get the script at all. I didn’t get it for “Pluribus.” I think normally I would have gotten it for a role as big as this, but they’re so secretive about the show.
I definitely didn’t get the full script on my first episode of “30 Rock.” I had to be like, “Okay, my job is to make Jack mad, so I have to do all of these lines in a way that will make Jack mad.” [Laughs]
That’s complicated. That’s way different than being like, “Who am I? Where did I come from? What’s my story?” It’s very much like, “Okay, I’m a tool. Let me do it.”
In a certain way, I think there should be a guest actor category for the not-famous actor who is able to get it done within a shoot day, not take up too much time so that people go over, say their lines, not make too much of a fuss and wear the costume they’re told to wear. [Laughs] Because that’s hard work too.
AF: This show relies on guest actors and background actors probably more than any other show on television right now. It really is tremendous.
Hiller: They have this choreographer to make everyone move. They described it like octopus tentacles, that it’s one brain with all these different arms moving in synchronicity.
What they did with that, I mean, I wasn’t there that day, but when they did the loading in and loading out of that grocery store, it was like magic. All those background actors had to work really hard to figure that out. I think it’s really impressive.
AF: You’re on two Apple TV shows right now that are getting incredible recognition. Are you surprised by how strongly people have reacted to both, particularly when we keep hearing that audiences don’t have the attention span for high-concept shows anymore?
Hiller: I know. You do hear that. [Laughs]
When I’m in a show, I’m not thinking, “How will people respond to it?” I kind of just don’t even think about that. But when I saw these shows, I did think, these are good. [Laughs] These shows are good.
Although I have to tell you, when I saw “Somebody Somewhere,” I was like, “This show is good,” and it took forever for anybody to watch that.
I guess what I’m surprised by is the luck that I would happen to be cast in two different shows in such a short time that are both so beloved by audiences. That’s the bigger surprise to me.
And it’s always surprising when anybody likes anything because I’ve definitely been in things that I thought were great that went ignored and been in things that I was like, “This is terrible,” and people are like, “I love that.” [Laughs]
AF: There are a lot of fan theories around “Pluribus.” Are there any that have caught your attention, or do you have your own theory about what’s happening?
Hiller: I’ve heard so many for “Widow’s Bay” that I’ve gotten overwhelmed by them. But for “Pluribus,” I think the biggest thing for me is that some people are like, “I love Carol and Zosia together. I wish Carol and Zosia were together.” And I’m like, “Oh, okay.”
Then other people are like, “Oh, it’s such a manipulation.” Some people are like, “I just want to be a part of the Hive Mind,” and other people are like, “Carol’s gotta save them.”
For me, it’s less about the theories and more about that incredibly rich storytelling where it isn’t just like, these are the bad guys and these are the good guys. There are times when I’m like, “Ah, maybe being in the Hive is just better. Let’s just do it. They’re all nice.”
But then you’re like, “Oh, I don’t want to eat bones of carved-up people.” [Laughs]
AF: Milk cartons. I can’t see a milk carton the same way anymore. It’s really terrible. [Laughs]
Hiller: That scene was so great when she was like, “It was viscous.” [Laughs]
AF: Thinking about this role again, you’re known for being able to do both comedy and drama. How did you approach Larry? There’s a little bit of both, because it’s hard to see the spandex and not get at least a little chuckle out of it. [Laughs]
Hiller: First of all, you lost me at “known.” You are known. I’m like, “I am?” [Laughs]
I guess I just didn’t really think about it. More than anything, I was like, “I can’t believe I get to work with Vince Gilligan.” I was a huge “Breaking Bad” fan, and I love “Better Call Saul” too. To work with Rhea was so… I had to really be like, “Her name’s not Kim. Her name’s not Kim.” [Laughs]
I guess anybody who’s good in comedy and drama is really just approaching it for what the script is written like. That’s always my thought.
Sometimes people are like, “The secret to comedy is to play it like a drama.” And I’m always like, “What does that mean?” The secret to good acting is to be truthful. How do you make these words on the page sound authentic and true? That’s my approach to kind of everything, including broad comedy or straight drama.
AF: There’s a tiny moment at the very end of the scene that stood out to me when I rewatched it. There’s an expression on your face as Carol walks away. As a viewer, we’re still trying to understand what emotions the Hive actually feels. Was that expression intentional, and what did you want to communicate in that moment?
Hiller: I think the expression is, or what I was trying to say, maybe you read it as something different and then it is a happy accident. [Laughs]
But I think I know what you’re talking about. After that conversation, there were moments where I think the Hive thought it was going well. We thought we were really getting through to Carol, and then there were times when it was very clear we weren’t.
At the end, and I don’t know if this is really true because this was not from the download with Alison, but in my mind I thought, if I have all of these people in me, there are going to be some mixed emotions. There are mixed emotions just in one person, so why wouldn’t there be in millions?
My expression was trying to say, “I’m disappointed this didn’t go well. I feel bad for you. I feel bad for us.” I feel a little disappointed in us and a little bit disappointed in Carol that she doesn’t realize this incredible opportunity to be part of the Hive Mind, which to Larry’s mind is the greatest gift bestowed on humanity.
AF: It’s been lovely talking to you. Congratulations on both shows and the nomination. I’m excited to see how it all plays out.
Hiller: Thank you for letting me really geek out and talk about the acting process in a way that probably will be embarrassing on reviewing it. [Laughs]
AF: It absolutely will not. Take care, Jeff. Thank you so much.