There are moments watching “The Diplomat” when simply keeping up with the conversation feels like an accomplishment. Debora Cahn’s characters talk fast, know more than everyone else in the room and rarely have the luxury of explaining themselves. Somehow, the cast makes it look easy. Keri Russell and Rufus Sewell have been doing it since the beginning as Kate and Hal Wyler, turning arguments over international diplomacy, career ambition and their spectacularly complicated marriage into some of the show’s best scenes. For casting director Julie Schubert, finding an actor for this world means finding someone who can walk into that rhythm without disrupting it.
That became even more complicated in Season 3. The season begins immediately after the death of President William Rayburn, elevating Vice President Grace Penn (Allison Janney) to the presidency just as Kate has learned that Grace was involved in the conspiracy behind the attack on a British warship. Then Grace selects Hal as her vice president, the very position Kate had once been considered for. Cahn, whose credits include “The West Wing” and “Homeland,” has always understood that the personal and political can be equally messy. Season 3 gives her cast plenty of both.
The results earned “The Diplomat” seven Emmy nominations this year, including Outstanding Drama Series. Russell and Sewell are nominated for their performances as Kate and Hal, while Janney earned a supporting actress nomination for Grace. Cahn and Peter Ackerman are nominated for writing the episode “Amagansett.” Schubert earned her first nomination for “The Diplomat” alongside casting team Lain Kunin, Ellinor Isherwood, Lucinda Syson and Natasha Vincent. It’s fitting recognition for a series that asks its cast to make Cahn’s intelligent, demanding dialogue sound completely natural.
Season 3 also gave Schubert several opportunities to expand that ensemble. Bradley Whitford joins the series as Todd Penn, Grace’s husband and suddenly the nation’s First Gentleman, reuniting him with his former “The West Wing” co-star Janney. Aidan Turner enters Kate’s orbit as Callum Ellis, while Tracy Ifeachor joins as Thema, the wife of British Foreign Secretary Austin Dennison (David Gyasi). Rosaline Elbay also takes on a significant role as Nora Koriem, the vice president’s chief of staff. Each has to enter a series where the regular cast has already spent multiple seasons establishing its particular pace and tone.
Whitford presented an especially interesting casting decision. Schubert reveals that his name had actually been discussed since the show’s first season, long before Todd Penn appeared on screen. Casting him opposite Janney could easily have become distracting given their history on “The West Wing,” but that familiarity also offered something Schubert knew would be difficult to manufacture. “You have two actors like Allison Janney and Bradley Whitford who are so brilliant at what they do that it’s going to be combustible, and there’s going to be so much chemistry regardless of how it plays,” said Schubert. Whitford’s performance ultimately earned him an Emmy nomination for Outstanding Guest Actor.
Schubert’s own Emmy nomination came as something of a surprise. After three seasons of work on the series, she wasn’t sitting at home watching the nominations. She was at a salon getting her hair dyed pink when congratulatory texts began arriving. What followed was one of those rare moments that felt scripted itself. “Everybody in the salon was like, ‘Are you okay? What’s wrong? Can we help you? Do you need water?’ And I was like, ‘No, something really great happened.'”
Awards Focus spoke to Julie Schubert about finally receiving Emmy recognition for “The Diplomat,” why Bradley Whitford had been on the casting team’s radar since Season 1 and the potential risk of reuniting him with Allison Janney. She also discusses what made Keri Russell the key to building the original ensemble, the psychology behind on-screen chemistry, why Rosaline Elbay stands out among the show’s newer performers and what casting directors actually look for when judging each other’s work.
Awards Focus: First, congratulations on the Emmy nomination. If I fact-checked correctly, this is your first nomination for “The Diplomat,” despite the show now being in its third season. Where were you when you heard, and what was that moment like?
Julie Schubert: It was wild. I was at the salon because I was really sick of my hair color, and I was like, “You know what? I just want to do something fun.” I got my hair dyed pink and I got a text message from somebody that said, “Congratulations.” I was like, “What?” And they were like, “You were nominated for an Emmy.” I was like, “Oh my God. Right, today!”
As much as I believe “The Diplomat” and everybody on “The Diplomat” deserves the recognition, it is Season 3. So it is surprising and really amazing to get that recognition. I just didn’t expect it, so I wasn’t as glued to the TV, I guess.
Then I cried a little, and everybody in the salon was like, “Are you okay? What’s wrong? Can we help you? Do you need water?” And I was like, “No, something really great happened.” It was like what you see on television. It was one of those TV moments in your life.
AF: Do you view the nomination as recognition for the three seasons of work or specifically what you accomplished in Season 3?
Schubert: I’d like to think that it is for this season in particular because I truly believe this is the best season that’s come. Season 1 was so good, but then Season 2 was even better than Season 1, and I really feel that Season 3 is better than the last two. So I think it’s deserved in its own right, truthfully.
AF: Let’s talk about Bradley Whitford. Pairing him with Allison Janney feels both obvious and potentially risky because audiences have such a strong association with them from “The West Wing.” How did you land on Bradley?
Schubert: To be honest, Bradley’s been someone we’ve talked about since Season 1. He’s one of those actors who is just so incredibly gifted at what he does. He can toe that line of comedy and drama so beautifully, which I think this show does really, really well. He will take something and make it interesting no matter what, even a show like this, which is already interesting.
Every season we’ve had a conversation about, “Is there something that we can talk about Bradley Whitford for this season?” Debora brought this character to life, and I think it felt like it was kismet.
I know what you’re saying. It feels risky to put those two back together again. But I also think it’s kind of genius because the dynamic is so different and it’s unexpected. You have two actors like Allison Janney and Bradley Whitford who are so brilliant at what they do that it’s going to be combustible, and there’s going to be so much chemistry regardless of how it plays.
Even though you may come in thinking you’re looking at “The West Wing,” you leave being like, “This is ‘The Diplomat,’ 100 percent.” Does that make sense?
AF: You mentioned chemistry. Do you use chemistry reads?
Schubert: We do sometimes. It just depends on the situation and the timing. All the stars have to align the right way.
It’s also really hard to do chemistry reads in a virtual environment because we are in a world that is so international. Sometimes you do just roll the dice and hope for the best.
Fortunately, you knew that there was chemistry with Allison and Bradley already because they have the history, so there was no question about that. For Aidan Turner and Keri, that was a different conversation, whether or not they would have chemistry. I think the chemistry was combustible there too, in a great way. It was very, very sexy.
Part of it is a little subjective. You do have to hope for the best, but I think looking at their body of work and knowing how they work, which is incredibly key, can give you a good indication if they’ll get along and they’ll work on screen.
AF: Season 3 made me realize that “The Diplomat” is as much a show about couples as it is a political thriller. You also introduce Thema, Austin Dennison’s wife, and bring Lydia Trowbridge further into that dynamic. When casting actors who aren’t in every episode but need to immediately match the dialogue and tension of the regular ensemble, what tells you they can do it?
Schubert: I think in every audition you have a piece of material that speaks to what the role is and also speaks to what the project is itself. When you’re working with an actor, it’s their choices that really ring true as to whether or not they’re going to be a fit for it.
The actors who take a piece of material and have made decisions about who this character is, where this character’s going, who understand the tone of the show and understand the pacing of the show, those are the actors you’re looking for. In Season 3, you have the luxury of being able to look back at a previous season, even if you aren’t familiar with the project, and understand it intrinsically.
It’s those actors who come in ready to play, who have ideas, who aren’t asking me what I want to see. They’re already a leg up. Then they do something really specifically interesting with the dialogue that they’re given.
Especially for this show, we’re keeping it as confidential as possible. We don’t always use the sides they’re actually going to be doing on the day. We send out something just to hide the characters they’re talking about or what that storyline is. It’s exciting when you don’t know what’s happening as a viewer. If it’s out there in the world, then it ruins that.
You work with them either in the room or on Zoom and help shape what they’ve brought to the table. Then you have conversations with Debora, the directors and Janice Williams and decide who that best fit is for the show, but also for the couples themselves.
Part of that audition process is also how they are on set and whether it’s somebody that people are actually going to enjoy working with. For this set in particular, the people who are coming are coming because they have great reputations, they’re fun to work with and they’re professional. Everyone wants to go to work and enjoy themselves. No one wants to go to work and feel like it’s a slog.
This show has fostered that energy through each season in a really great way. All of those elements come together, the stars align, and that’s how we move forward. That was a really roundabout way to answer that question.
AF: Kate and Hal are one tv’s best couples. From a casting perspective, what made you believe Keri Russell and Rufus Sewell could create that electricity together?
Schubert: I think it’s a little about what we talked about already. It’s this idea that they have a body of work where you’ve been able to see the way they work.
Once someone has worked with multiple directors, producers, casting directors and other actors, a reputation has developed around what that day-to-day is on set. Knowing that you’re putting people together who have similar work ethics and similar styles of performance and ways of working together is important. You’re not going to put someone who’s incredibly Method with someone who’s a little more off the cuff and goes off the script. That chemistry is a recipe for disaster.
We have people like Rufus and Keri who have beautiful reputations. There’s a level of trust and belief that they are going to like each other and they’re going to find the chemistry in it. The directors, of course, help. The writing, of course, helps. But understanding the psychology of it, which I do think is part of casting, and how people will interact with each other helps get us where we need to be.
You can never guarantee it, but you can get as close as you can possibly get. Once Keri and Rufus met, they really enjoyed each other as people, and I think that helps a lot.
AF: Who was the toughest Season 3 character to cast?
Schubert: That’s a hard one because it’s all such joyful casting. The beauty of this writing is it’s so clear who should be this. I honestly can’t answer that because, to me, it felt easy because it was so clear.
That’s also part of casting. You may look at it and think, “I never would’ve thought of that,” but in my head, I can hear them and I can see how it’s going to play out. That’s the exciting part.
AF: Let’s rewind to Season 1. My understanding is that no one, including Keri Russell, was attached when you began casting. What was the most critical decision in building the original ensemble?
Schubert: I think it’s not one. It’s the cohesive family because everything had to work together and had to make sense.
Getting Keri on board was the catalyst to everything else. So I think that would be the thing. Knowing who your Kate Wyler was answered all the questions you needed to elsewhere.
AF: When do you feel most validated after recommending someone for a role?
Schubert: You were right. That’s when I feel most validated. When I’m like, “I think you should hire this person,” and maybe there’s a little pushback and they’re like, “I don’t know.”
“I’m telling you, it’s this person.”
Then they call me the next day and they’re like, “You were absolutely right.” I love that. That makes me feel happy.
AF: Do you get that same feeling later when you finally see the performance on screen?
Schubert: Absolutely. They don’t call you every time you cast somebody and tell you how right you were. That would be the most egotistical thing ever. As much as I would love a big head like that, we can’t do that.
But when you watch it on screen and see how it all comes together and you’re like, “Ah, I got it right,” I feel really good about that. Or we got it right, because it’s not just about me. It’s about everybody who works on this project.
It’s about Lucinda Syson and Tasha Vincent, who are my casting partners in the UK for this, and Debora’s writing and everybody in the writers’ room, and then the directors and all of us coming together, and the actors delivering and showing up on set every day.
This is truly one of those projects that is an ensemble and a family that works together. Because it is working as well as it is, I think that’s what you end up seeing on screen.
AF: Casting directors can change the trajectory of an actor’s career. Is there someone on “The Diplomat” you’re especially proud to have helped give that opportunity to?
Schubert: There are so many really awesome actors who haven’t gotten that platform yet to do what they do.
I’m really excited that Rosaline Elbay is on this series. She plays Nora, and I think that she’s incredibly talented and a super smart actor. I’d like to think that she’s getting more recognition because she’s on the show. She deserves it.
There are some other characters who have come in and out throughout the season. Not that they aren’t already very well-known working actors, but when you see those people together in that fun way, it’s nice.
I was talking to one of the actors, and I’m not going to name names, but they were like, “I get stopped on the street and I’ve only done four episodes.” It’s a really nice feeling to know that you’ve been part of somebody’s journey in their career and that they’re really proud of what they’re doing.
AF: With casting now being recognized by the Oscars as well as the Emmys, what do you look for when you’re voting for another casting director’s work? Is it finding a major star, discovering someone completely unknown or something else?
Schubert: That’s such an awesome question. I appreciate it. I think everybody should look at it that way.
I look at a bunch of different factors. One, the overall cohesion of a project. Does every piece resonate in a way that makes me believe I’m part of that world, even though I’m just a viewer of that world? Does everything feel really truthful? Did they tell the story they wanted to tell? Did everyone connect with each other?
Also, the level of difficulty of casting that particular project in the way that they cast it. So a project that is an entirely South Asian cast where, as a casting director, I’m looking and I know that this actor is based in Mumbai, this actor is based in Vancouver, and this actor is actually out of South Africa, and they had to search the globe for every piece of this, every person. I know the challenge that went into that.
Not only did they do that on a global scale, but they did it in a way that resonated with an entire cast. That, to me, shows skill. It shows the ability to traverse language, to traverse different time zones, which is also challenging, and to come away with a picture that’s really exciting.
And then also the unexpected. If I’m watching something and it’s so good that I could not see anybody else in that role because there are no other options, that’s an unexpected cast. A lot of times you can watch something and be like, “Oh, that was great, but that person could have played it great too, or that person.”
When somebody so intrinsically embodies these roles that there can be no question, to me, that’s the work of an incredible casting director who understands the dynamic. That’s what I look for when I’m voting specifically for casting.