Casting has always been an essential part of Vince Gilligan’s storytelling. But in “Pluribus,” it becomes something even more unusual. The Apple TV science fiction drama centers on Carol Sturka (Rhea Seehorn), one of the few people on Earth left untouched after an alien signal transforms nearly all of humanity into a collective consciousness known as the Others. Suddenly, virtually anyone Carol encounters can become another face of the same entity.
That conceit makes the casting of “Pluribus” especially fascinating. Seehorn is the clear center of the series, but the world around her is populated by performers who may appear for an episode, a scene or sometimes barely speak at all. They still have to register as individuals even as many of them are effectively sharing a consciousness. Jeff Hiller’s Larry, for instance, can speak to Carol with the knowledge and familiarity of the entire collective. A pilot, delivery driver or stranger on the street can become just as important to making the Others believable as one of the show’s recurring characters.
For casting director Sharon Bialy and her collaborators Sherry Thomas, Russell Scott and location casting director Marie A.K. McMaster, that meant building an ensemble on a genuinely global scale. The results speak for themselves. “Pluribus” earned 18 Emmy nominations this year, including Outstanding Drama Series and Outstanding Casting for a Drama Series for Bialy, Thomas, Scott and McMaster. The show also earned acting nominations for Seehorn, Carlos-Manuel Vesga, Karolina Wydra, Miriam Shor and Hiller, recognition that makes the casting nomination feel particularly fitting.
For Bialy, however, some of the casting team’s greatest accomplishments can be found much further down the call sheet. “I think we’re most proud of a lot of the smaller roles,” she tells Awards Focus. Many of those performers were unfamiliar faces, and some weren’t conventional screen actors at all. The casting team considered people ranging from opera singers to a UPS driver while searching for performers capable of disappearing into Gilligan’s strange new world. “That’s the beauty of Vince’s shows,” Bialy says. “You just dive right into the story.”
That search extended far beyond Hollywood. Bialy says authenticity and representation were priorities for Gilligan because a story about something happening to the entire planet needed to actually feel global. Samba Schutte’s character wasn’t originally conceived as Mauritanian, while Manousos was initially envisioned as Paraguayan before Colombian actor Carlos-Manuel Vesga emerged during a search across Latin America. Rather than forcing the actors into predetermined boxes, Gilligan could reshape the characters around the people they found.
Vesga’s casting also produced one of the more unlikely meetings of Bialy’s career. When the actor happened to be visiting his sister in Los Angeles over Christmas, Bialy asked to meet him. The two ended up talking for an hour in a Gelson’s parking lot. “He’s a really smart human being, a really dedicated actor, and there’s something about his soul that matched the soul of the character,” she recalls. That instinct proved especially important for Manousos, a character whose performance frequently depends more on silence and internal life than dialogue. Vesga is now an Emmy nominee for Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Drama Series.
In conversation with Awards Focus, Bialy discusses the worldwide search behind “Pluribus,” why she doesn’t believe in chemistry reads, the unexpected performers who helped populate the Others and what it meant to see so many members of the ensemble recognized by the Television Academy. Now celebrating her tenth Emmy nomination, Bialy also reflects on what the series taught her about looking beyond the traditional parameters of casting and finding what her longtime collaborator Thomas describes as “the soul of the actor to match the soul of the character.”
Awards Focus: Congratulations. Thinking back to last week when you heard the nominations, were you more emotional about your nomination or any of the particular actors who got nominated?
Sharon Bialy: That’s a good question. If Rhea had not been nominated, I think I would’ve left the business. So that was very emotional to me. To me, you celebrate the day of the nominations because the whole voting and winning is a challenging process, et cetera. So I was very emotional because so many departments were recognized for their work. That was exciting.
I was especially emotional about Karolina and Carlos, especially Carlos, being his first show in this country, and nobody knew who he was. Karolina has worked, but isn’t a big name either. So to see actors’ work get recognized not because they were well known was very meaningful for all of us in the casting office.
AF: You took risks finding actors who aren’t household names and may not be recognizable to U.S. audiences. What was the overall casting philosophy when you started looking for these characters?
Bialy: It’s very important to Vince to have authenticity and representation. So I think that is the dictum and the rule that the three of us follow when casting.
Sometimes he would say the character is going to be from somewhere and we’d be like, “What?” But that was important to us because if you’re going all over the world with the story, if the story has affected the whole world, you need to make sure you’re representing people from all over the world.
Samba Schutte is a wonderful example. It wasn’t written as Mauritanian, but it was someone who spoke French fluently who was definitely diverse. So yes, we introduced him to Vince, but it’s also Vince’s brilliance to then tailor the role towards him. I just thought that was so exciting, to have someone from there represented.
Even with Carlos, originally it was going to be Paraguay, but Carlos is Colombian. So we looked all over Latin America, but we were really trying to do southern Latin America.
AF: Can you talk about the actual casting process? Outside of Rhea, I assume there weren’t identified actors where you said, “We’re going to go after this person.” Was it open auditions?
Bialy: We reached out and did self-tapes from all over the world, and we did a lot of Zooms. We also have an office. We’re one of the few casting offices that are still around, and we do see people live.
But by virtue of the fact that people were all over the globe, a lot of it was self-tapes and a lot of it was us waking up super early in the morning so that we could read with actors who were in France or anywhere in the world.
I think self-tapes are really difficult for actors. So if we saw the seed of something that was interesting, we would call them back internally for a Zoom and work with them and guide them through Vince’s naturalistic approach to everything.
AF: Vince Gilligan’s shows are somewhat famous for even the current cast not knowing where their characters are headed. So what were people auditioning given as far as pieces of script or a definition of who their character was?
Bialy: They get a slight definition. They are given fake sides, and the sides are what they’re going to audition with. Those are written by a lot of Vince’s writing staff. We always hear, “These are fake sides? These are the best things I’ve read all year.”
Once we’re on the Zoom with them, we can explain what the situation really is. We can never do it in an email because you don’t want to get hacked. So we’ll say, “This is what’s really happening.”
Samba Schutte is a great example because he did a self-tape and then we were looking all over the world. We didn’t call him back for his Zoom for a while because we were in the midst of the search. Then when we did call him back on Zoom, we told him really where he was and who he was talking to. There was a big laugh, but then we were able to help shape the performance.
But also, we had a lot of people who are non-actors. It might’ve been an opera singer or a UPS driver. So you’re also educating them about how to read the sides and how to interact with us.
That’s, I think, the beauty of the cast because you just touched upon so many real people or actors who rarely get an opportunity, and they all get one here. I think we’re most proud of a lot of the smaller roles.
It’s great that Miriam Shor got nominated for guest star and Jeff Hiller. We’re really excited for them. But when you look at that opening scene, I think we just were so proud of the variety of fine, fine actors who nobody knows who they are. That’s the beauty of Vince’s shows. You just dive right into the story. You’re not sitting there and going, “Oh my God, there’s the guy from ‘Paradise.'”
AF: Was there generally a unifying quality you were looking for, or did each character have a unique challenge in terms of what you needed from the casting?
Bialy: I think each character had a unique challenge. The only unifying thing is not to feel like they’re acting. We have to strip away. We always tell actors, because Vince’s writing is so good, we as the casting directors even sound good reading it. We just can’t go on camera. So if you just say the lines and don’t put too much else into it, if you’re right for the role, it will really work.
The work comes beforehand, where you think about who they are, et cetera. But yes, it was all individual.
I love the casting of Blair Beeken, which was Sherry’s idea. Who would’ve thought that she was going to be in the trailer licking the donuts? But she has such a great face and is just so real. And actors like Jack Mikesell, who nobody knows, or Robert Bailey Jr., all at the beginning. I think they really kind of set the tone of the show.
But the common thread that Sherry, Russell and I are challenged with is they really have to be fine actors because you never know who Vince is going to write to later. We knew Samba was going to have a big arc. We knew that. But the other ones, you don’t always know.
So when we were casting all the Others, even though they don’t say anything, and we thought Vince was crazy to do so many actors and travel them, we were reading them because we knew later on he might add something.
AF: That’s interesting. Take Carlos as an example. His role is so complex, and a little bit like Rhea, so much of it is done in silence and without dialogue. Was there something in his audition that clicked for you, where you knew he could do this?
Sharon Bialy: Well, you really, as a casting director, dive into their body of work because it’s not just about an audition. So we really researched and saw a lot of his other work, and he’s a major theater actor in his country as well.
But we had the good fortune that he happened to come to America to visit his sister. His sister lives in L.A., and it was over the Christmas break. He let us know he was coming, and I just thought, “He’s so special. We should meet with him.”
We literally met him in a parking lot at Gelson’s and sat and talked for an hour. I think that also solidified it. He is a really smart human being, a really dedicated actor, and there’s something about his soul that matched the soul of the character.
So that really intrigued us. We told Vince about the meeting, et cetera. And then he was totally comfortable in the silences on camera because he had so much internal life to lean on.
AF: “Chemistry” is probably an overused word, but there’s an interesting interplay she has with each of them. There’s tension based on the script, but there’s also an immediate sense that these people are connecting in very different ways. How much can you test for that in casting, or is that simply great acting and great writing?
Bialy: It’s great acting, and that’s why you have to hire great actors.
I am one of the few people that doesn’t believe in chemistry reads. I think if you have two great actors, they will be able to work off of each other and find that common thread and the chemistry.
Rhea is also an incredible number one on the call sheet, and she welcomes the actors. She calls them, like the leads, and then she also gives them some background about how to work with Vince because she’s been working with him for so long and how to keep going.
Vince does a lot of takes, and sometimes an actor might think they’re doing something wrong. She will explain, “No, that’s Vince just finding the perfect tone, the perfect thing.”
AF: With casting being added to the Oscars, casting directors are finally getting their flowers in both television and film. When you’re voting for your peers, what makes you look at a show or film and think the casting director deserves recognition? I always wonder whether there’s a bias toward the projects with the biggest stars.
Bialy: I look at the totality of the ensemble, and we will pretty much know. You can look at who came attached on a lot of television shows, a lot of movies. Leonardo DiCaprio comes attached. That’s how they greenlight a movie. So I don’t vote based on the star of the show.
You can usually learn through reading who else might’ve been attached and who the casting director is really recommending or auditioning. So to me, I vote on the totality of the ensemble that I see throughout a bunch of episodes.
And honestly, I don’t think that’s how the voting goes because you see, if there’s a big star in a television series and they get a nomination and they win, it’s name recognition. It’s frustrating because this is my 10th nomination, never won.
But again, and Sherry Thomas has taught me this and taught it to Russell, you celebrate the recognition because the rest is really beyond your control.
Sometimes it’s due to popularity of famous stars, but I understand that name recognition matters and a lot of people don’t have the time to do the research. I think a lot of casting directors do really try to look at the ensemble.
AF: Hopefully the 10th time is the charm for you. You’ve been doing this a while. Do you still get nervous after you’ve all agreed on a casting decision? At what point do you feel validated that the choice is working on screen?
Bialy: I feel like I know sometimes when the final decision is made, but when you see it on screen, you really have so much joy. It’s almost like they’re your children and it’s some eternal love for it all.
I think Sherry, Russell and I still get really excited when we see the final product on screen and just sit there beaming.
AF: Let’s walk through each of the nominees. For Carlos, what was the scene where you saw him and thought, “Okay, this worked”?
Bialy: I knew it worked, but when he was alone, that one episode, I thought that was extraordinary.
AF: How about Karolina?
Bialy: Karolina, probably in the episode with the grenade (Episode 3).That was also the audition scene, so it was so fun to see it live.
AF: And Miriam?
Bialy: Miriam, we all thought right away. Automatic. The fact that she was recognized was just an absolute thrill for all of us. We were really big fans of hers,
AF: And Jeff Hiller’s nomination for his amazing seven or so minutes of screen time?
Bialy: Russell was a big fan of Jeff Hiller’s. Russell and Sherry know more of the comedy people than I do, and I thought that was a really interesting placement.
AF: As you look forward to Season 2, and I’m not sure if you’re allowed to share anything, are you able to say whether we’ll see the cast expand with any new main characters, or even people from this past season taking bigger roles?
Bialy: Yeah, I mean, they’re still in the writers’ room and Vince takes his time. So we only know about the series regulars who are coming back. Obviously Carlos, Rhea, Karolina, and we know Samba’s coming back.
AF: You’re a veteran and a multiple-time nominee, but has working on “Pluribus” itself changed the way you’ll approach casting in the future?
Bialy: I think it has affected me in terms of opening up to the diversity of ethnicities in any role.
The fun part in “Pluribus” was, like, the airplane pilot could look like a candy striper. That was just so freeing. But there is a part of that that you can do with other characters.
Sherry always says, “Look for the soul of the actor to match the soul of the character.” And that’s how you can expand beyond “white guy, 35 to 45.”
AF: It’s been a pleasure talking to you. Thank you.
Bialy: It’s a very special show, and it never underestimates the intelligence of the audience. That’s part of the thing we all love so much.