Lyrically, a song can correspond to a scene more than the music. In ‘Baby Reindeer,’ music supervisor Catherine Grieves honored the story by series creator and star Richard Gadd by balancing the show’s tone with lyrics from songs that encapsulate the visual atmosphere of the show.
Gadd adapted his one-person stage show based on his real-life experiences into the limited Netflix series, which follows a struggling comedian (Gadd) as he is stalked by a relentless and struggling woman, Martha (Jessica Gunning), after meeting her at the pub where he works. Grieves is nominated for an Outstanding Music Supervision Emmy award for episode four, which explores the abuse and grooming Donny suffered after he meets a successful TV writer, Darrien (Tom Goodman-Hill).
Grieves, previously nominated for her music supervision on AMC’s Killing Eve in 2020, utilized a catalog of sixties and seventies music alongside scripted songs Gadd had incorporated into the story like Dusty Springfield’s ‘You Don’t Have to Say You Love Me.’ She recalls it being particularly important to identify how the song’s use reflects a moment and helps the audience navigate the show’s darker moments.
“We were in post-production for quite a long time, and we did really consider every single song placement,” explains Grieves. “There’s around 56 licensed songs, and it’s less than four hours of TV, so it’s a lot of music, and at first you’re identifying certain moments which need to be a certain way, but then we use commercial music to really kind of help lift some of the darker elements to the story.”
Grieves spoke with Awards Focus about how she approached and worked with Gadd on the music for the show, the song she feels perfectly encapsulates the series, and how lyrics can bring together a scene.
Awards Focus: What does it mean to you to receive an Emmy nomination for “Baby Reindeer” and your work on the show?
Catherine Grieves: It’s a massive honor. “Baby Reindeer” is one of those shows that when you start working on it, you know that it is incredibly special. It’s a brave story; coming on board something so personal to one person makes you take a different approach. I’m so pleased for Richard how well the show has been received and how it’s had this cultural moment.
AF: What drew you to music supervision and this area of the industry?
Grieves: I’ve worked in music supervision, or at least from a junior role, for most of my career. I was very lucky to work for a company called Hothouse Music. I got a job there when I was still at university, and I’ve always been completely passionate about music in general. In fact, I also run a composer agency, so I’m very interested in both sides. 16 or 17 years later, I’m fortunate to be able to work on such incredible projects, particularly in the TV space.
TV has changed significantly, particularly in the UK, over the last ten years. I’m quite lucky to have been in a position where TV wasn’t necessarily what it is now. But working on smaller UK shows and then growing with the industry has been great, and seeing how valued music is in TV now, and in a way that it wasn’t. It’s reflected in “Baby Reindeer” in that the project started with an independent feel, and the music budget reflected that when I started on the project. Luckily, Netflix supported the ambition of the show once they got involved, so it’s a fun position to be in.
AF: At what stage of development did you join the project, and how was music already integrated into the story?
Grieves: I normally join pre-production at the scripting stage. One of the first things that we have to identify is any music that’s used on camera. I need to make sure that I’m across anything that we need to commit to, whether that needs creative input or just to make sure we clear it for use.
There were a couple of musical moments that we needed to look at very early on. Martha sings lyrics from ‘Something Stupid’ to Donnie, and the lyric changes to something like, “Hitler was misunderstood.” That’s when you read the script and go, okay, it’s my responsibility to make sure that we can use ‘Something Stupid’ and that they’re happy for us to make that joke and change the lyrics. Luckily, we were able to get the rights relatively easily.
Also, in episode five, Martha is in the club, and she sings another duet that was scripted as a Sonny and Cher song, which would’ve been completely out of our budget. So, I was suggesting other options that might be a bit more reasonable. I suggested a Kylie Minogue and Jason Donovan song, which I was quite pleased to get in. It’s always good when you can get a bit of “Neighbors” into the mix.
I tend to be around and start feeding playlists to the edit. Once we kind of get assemblies together and get further into the process, that’s when I get more involved, and we start having the wider creative conversations about everybody’s vision and what might be needed specifically throughout the show.
AF: With the songs already in the scripts, is there room to interpret and bring in different music that could fit a scene differently?
Grieves: One of the first conversations that I ever have on a project is once I’ve read the script, I identify anything that we need to lock down and whether we can afford it. Second, we might be able to afford it, but is it more expensive than we want to pay at this moment? How important is that piece of music to the showrunner? Sometimes, I might read it and go; that could be anything, but there may be this key bit of music that really needs to stay in. So, it’s often a conversation that you have to tread quite carefully because something might not connect on paper in the same way to me as it does to whoever’s making that creative decision.
But Richard had scripted a couple of other songs, which is always quite helpful, in a way, just for needle drops. So, nothing that we had to commit to at all. He had Dusty Springfield scripted in episode one and ‘Angel of the Morning’ in a later episode. That helps give a feel for where Richard’s head was because that kind of sixties and seventies, quite classic vibe, was a nice jumping-off point for me to start working. I only had access to Richard in post-production because he had more things to think about than what we would be putting on in the production phase. My conversations were with [Director] Weronika, who’s an incredible director on block one with Matthew Muller and would help with those conversations first. Once Richard was out of the shoot, my relationship really took off with him.
AF: The show traverses several genres. What was it like to pair songs with specific moments that added to the tone of the show?
Grieves: We were in post-production for quite a long time, and I think we did really consider every single song placement. We had a lot of in-depth discussions between all of us about what different songs needed to be at different moments. I think there’s like 56 licensed songs, and it’s less than four hours of TV, so it’s a lot of music, and at first, you’re identifying certain moments which need to be a certain way, but then we use commercial music to really help lift some of the darker elements to the story.
He does play a comedian through all these incredibly traumatic things happening to him. The music helps pull that kind of positivity through. There’s a lyric in Wilco’s ‘How to Fight Loneliness’ in episode four, which plays over a really dark moment where Donny’s taking an absolute concoction of drugs in a not-cool way. A very kind of groomed way. We got denied on quite a few songs because of the contentious scene, but there’s a lyric that goes, “How to fight loneliness, laugh at every single joke.”
I think that line for this show is just so apt and perfectly sums up Donny’s resilience. There was a lot to think about and a lot of nuance between different songs within a 10-minute sequence in one episode, never mind across the whole journey, where the music definitely changes. Everything kind of links. It was all thought out in a sort of arc, but I don’t think anything ever really happens like that. Then, afterward, you go, oh, this is all the pieces of the puzzle. Let’s make this work.
AF: How did you create a throughline with the music to help the audience navigate the story?
Grieves: It’s easiest when you are finding a tone for a show to have some limitation or idea that you start with. I think that really helps lock in what the sound is. That certainly was our sixties and seventies songs. The first key track, other than our Dusty, is the one that stays with you at the end of episode one, where we have The Turtles’ ‘Happy Together.’ That was one of the first ones to go in and really landed. The other one was The Bee Gees’ ‘I Started a Joke’ in episode five or six. Lyrically, it sums up what’s going on, and it really worked. Those were the calls where it was like, let’s get these two tracks, even if that costs the whole budget. Luckily, we were able to only use part of our budget on those. Then, from that moment, it was piecing the show together on a per-episode basis. It was thinking about those individual moments and what tone we need to have in each of these spots.
We didn’t lock ourselves into the sixties and seventies. We have far more modern songs in there. The show is set in 2015, so there were certain moments where something’s playing on the radio that would work and make sense. You’re putting the series in a time, and those things come together, and gradually, they develop. The last episode, especially, felt like a kind of release with the songs we put in there. Everything else is either juxtaposing the picture or giving a bit of breathing that allows the music to be really emotional.