Throughout the third season of ‘Shrinking,’ editor James Renfroe helped shape the series’ signature mix of comedy and emotion, from ambitious set pieces to deeply personal character moments.
“His timing is still incredible,” Renfroe says of getting to edit Michael J. Fox’s performances this past season.
During our conversation, Renfroe discussed how editing responsibilities were divided between himself and fellow editor Sarah Lucky, the challenges of shaping major sequences including the season premiere wedding and the ‘Les Misérables’ musical number, and the evolving post-production process under co-showrunner Neil Goldman. He also reflected on editing scenes featuring Michael J. Fox, incorporating improvisation from the cast, balancing the show’s dramatic and comedic elements, and his enduring love of baseball.
‘Shrinking’ started as a comedy series where a grieving therapist, Jimmy (Jason Segel) breaks the rules and tells the blunt truth to his clients. In ignoring his own training and ethics, Jimmy starts changing people’s lives as well as his own. The series has certainly grown into a true ensemble comedy series where the writers have found the right balance between work and home life.
Created by Bill Lawrence, Brett Goldstein, and Jason Segel, ‘Shrinking’ stars Segel, Harrison Ford, Christa Miller, Jessica Williams, Michael Urie, Luke Tennie, Lukita Maxwell, and Ted McGinley. Season 3 guest stars include Brett Goldstein, Damon Wayans Jr., Cobie Smulders, and Candice Bergen while Michael J. Fox and Jeff Daniels make special appearances.
All episodes of ‘Shrinking’ are streaming on Apple TV+.
Awards Focus: It’s so nice to talk with you again. How are you doing?
James Renfroe: Yeah, doing well. Nice to see you again.
AF: How did you all balance the editing duties and who works on which episode during season 3 of ‘Shrinking?’
James Renfroe: Similar to other shows that are half-hour comedies, we alternated between odds and evens. This year, Sarah Lucky was on odds, and then I was on evens. That got a little bit more complicated when they merged the premiere. The premiere is actually one and two, so then what aired second is episode three. As we got into how things worked, I ended up doing the odds, even though I was on the evens. Complicated answer.
AF: Yeah. I had prepped my questions before seeing where Sarah got pulled away and I did not have time to double-check which episode was the one which that had Harrison singing the Indiana Jones theme when he entered the room. I don’t know if that was your episode or hers.
James Renfroe: It was one of Sarah’s, yeah. Maybe initially three or five, so maybe two or four, probably four since it was him returning. We actually had a couple of easter eggs this year when Jimmy and Meg were checking through Paul’s storage facility looking for the books. There was a golden skull in that scene, and in some of the earlier edits, Meg finds it and is like, huh, what is this? We thought two references in the season was probably pushing it.
AF: I have to double-check that episode again. Which episodes or sequences provided the biggest challenge this season?
James Renfroe: Probably the wedding in the premiere was pretty complicated. It was shot across three nights. I think the editors and director cut versions of it were pushing maybe 14 minutes, and I think it ended up getting down to seven and change. Trying to make those cuts and still allow stuff to make sense, trying to figure out where those cuts would be, reshaping, going through the footage of three nights’ worth of material and blending and making sure those transitions were working. All of that was pretty complicated.
The ‘Les Mis’ sequence was pretty fun. I’m a big fan of that one. Only complicated because I built out the whole sequence and again, figuring out for pacing in the episodes how much of it was needed in order for us to be satisfied that we got enough of it because it’s such a fun experience and then while still keeping this show moving.
AF: Were you working on episodes simultaneously or focusing on one at a time?
James Renfroe: We block shoot. There’s usually enough time to finish an editor’s cut before we’re buried in the next block. We’re still chasing a little bit. The benefit of a show like this is that the producers don’t always get involved until after production since they’re on set and then they prioritize set life and writer’s room time. We’ll get a round or a couple of rounds of paper notes, but they don’t really dive in with us until after the season is completed. It allows us to focus on those edits in a nice productive way, which is dissimilar to the way traditional network comedies work, where you may be working on as many as three or four episodes at a time.
AF: How closely were you all working with Bill, Jason, and Brett? Granted, Bill has even more TV series on the air this year.
James Renfroe: Yeah, so across the board, we work very little with Jason. He’s a creator. I think he weighs in on scripts, but he doesn’t tend to come into the editing room. He does receive the cuts and he will give notes later in the process, but not traditionally in the room with us. Brett has been taken away from us with his ‘Ted Lasso’ duties. He spent some time in the room and does pop in a little bit. Bill, with his numerous shows, spent less time this season than previous seasons.
Neil Goldman, the co-showrunner who traditionally is very heavy in the writer’s room, took a heavier hand this year on the edits. Both Sarah and I, having been on the show for multiple seasons at this point, the cuts are generally in really solid shape. It’s about what cuts are we looking for as far as getting stuff to time. So yeah, Bill still definitely puts his fingerprint on everything. And then this year more so than previous seasons, Neil was more involved in post.
AF: Was Michael J. Fox in any of the episodes that you worked on, or was he in Sarah’s?
James Renfroe: He was in both, thank goodness. He was incredible to be able to edit and see. She did the first half of the first episode so she had the scene in the doctor’s office. I had the cake eating scene. Later in the season, I had a scene where it was Harrison, Neil, and Michael J. Fox were sitting around the couches arguing how much to fuck Parkinson’s.
His timing is still incredible. In that scene in particular, there was improv that he was doing, and his exchanges with Neil in particular were all very, very quick and very crisp. As somebody who’s been a big fan for so long, it was nice to be able to edit his material and see his talent, even as he was struggling with his Parkinson’s.
AF: Was it nerve-wracking at all?
James Renfroe: I’m sure on set they were really stressed. There were moments where it’s hard not to empathize with him as the character and as Michael J. Fox in particular. Again, he was such a vibrant person and when you see that still existing—honestly, it’s pretty inspiring.
But mostly, I approach all of the scenes I do: don’t mess it up, don’t mess it up, whether it’s Michael J. Fox or Jason Segel or Lukita or any of them. It’s such good writing and it’s such good performing performances from our cast that I just want to make sure I’m putting together the best version of all of it.
AF: How much did improv impact the editing process this season?
James Renfroe: Yeah, it’s interesting. We don’t generally have full-on improv where people just enter the room and then they are like, oh, you’re going to talk about birth, and then they just run wild. We don’t tend to get that. We do tend to get pitches from Bill on set. Jessica’s killer at improv. Ted McGinley is also incredible at it.
It’s really nice when you’re peppering around a scene and to try to incorporate some of that improv. We have so many moments of serious stuff so that when we can find those moments of levity, sometimes it helps just to keep the string up on our roller coaster ride.
I think both Sarah and I, as best as possible, try to include it. I think it’s good for the actors, if they ever watch, to see that we’re including it. I bumped into Ted McGinley at a FYC event and we discussed how much of his stuff we try to incorporate and he was appreciative. It’s a team effort. If they’re throwing strikes, we want to make sure that they’re getting used.
AF: Of course, he had a more serious storyline this season.
James Renfroe: Yeah, but still, plenty of ways to find humor in it. It was Sarah’s episode, but him walking around after eating all those edibles and talking to the mannequin was hilarious.
We had a lot of hospital stuff, I guess, or more so this year. But yeah, the series itself takes those moments and mixes that real life trauma or real life depressing or anxiety, all those emotions, mixing that with humor, so that it’s palatable, I think. If we were down the whole time and it was always serious, it would be harder to consume.
AF: Last time around, we spoke about how you had to turn in your baseball dreams for a career working in Hollywood. Has anyone come calling about a baseball movie or do I have to write it myself?
James Renfroe: Write it, please. I’m desperate to do it. I worked on a show, ‘Jane by Design,’ and one of the characters was a pitcher. Even just that little bit made me really excited. There was rumblings about ‘Field of Dreams’ or something, and I was trying to pull every string I could to get onto that. It would be a blast to work on something that was baseball related. Yeah, if you’re 80 pages into a script, you’re almost there. Anyway, now I’m trying to convince my kids to play.
AF: Have you been out to Dodger Stadium or Angel Stadium at all this season?
James Renfroe: We try to go once a year for the Dodgers. I tried to talked my wife into a Mother’s Day Braves-Dodger game. But we live in Burbank, so they tend to have a Burbank Day, and we tend to go to that. So this year, it’s the Dodgers versus the Red Sox. The Red Sox were the first baseball game I ever saw so I’m excited about that.
We’re Dodgers fans here. We’re both from Georgia, so if the Braves do play, we’re torn.
AF: Yeah, speaking of Atlanta, MLB Network has the Tigers-Braves game on right now.
James Renfroe: Oh, nice. Well, now I have an activity to do while I go through dailies. They’re having a good season so far.
AF: I could talk baseball all day, but I’m sure I’ll talk to you for season four.
James Renfroe: Yeah, looking forward to it. Be well. I’ll talk soon.