Shrinking co-creator and Ted Lasso star Brett Goldstein discusses playing Louis during the Apple TV+ comedy’s second season.
Goldstein already has a heavy load on his plate but this didn’t stop him from recurring on the series. Despite whatever limitations that Goldstein had in taking on the role, both co-creators Bill Lawrence and Jason Segel believed in him. The multi-hyphenate performs stand-up comedy during the weekend, which he finds to be refreshing. At the same time, Goldstein says that he works better when he’s doing “five things at once.”
Shrinking started as a comedy series where a grieving therapist, Jimmy (Jason Segel) breaks the rules and tells the blunt truth to his clients. In ignoring his own training and ethics, Jimmy starts changing people’s lives as well as his own. The series has certainly grown into a true ensemble comedy series where the writers have found the right balance between work and home life. Joining the cast as a recurring character this season is Goldstein, who portrays drunk driver Louis Winston.
All episodes of Shrinking are now available to watch on Apple TV+.
It’s so nice to meet you today. How are you doing?
Brett Goldstein: I’m good. Nice to meet you. Thanks for having me. How are you?
I’m doing well.
Brett Goldstein: Good.
In addition to co-creating Shrinking, you’re playing Louis Winston during the second season. At what point in the process was it decided that you would play the drunk driver?
Brett Goldstein: Quite late. Quite late. We had already started filming the show. We started filming episode one. Louis doesn’t appear to the very end of it. We were thinking about casting. We had some thoughts. Jason Segel called me and Bill Lawrence into his trailer and he said, Brett should be doing this. Why isn’t Brett doing this? We were both like, I don’t know about that. Jason was like, I feel it. I see it. Brett should do it. He said, think about it. Think about it overnight. In the morning, Bill Lawrence called me and he was very sweet. He basically was like, I don’t quite see it, but I believe in you and if you think you can do it, then let’s do it. He was like, but also, no pressure. The whole season hinges on this character, so don’t fuck it up. Okay, cool.
I thought you were phenomenal in the role.
Brett Goldstein: Thank you very, very much. That’s nice to hear. Thank you. Thank G-d.
I’m curious how much of the hesitation was around the role and just the insanity of having a feature film and full tour going at the same time.
Brett Goldstein: (Laughs) Yeah, I mean, sure. That’s an absolutely fair question. I think Bill knows by now that I work better when I’m doing five things at once. Also, it was a really lovely thing to have the tour. You’ve seen this show. Louis is not a fun part to play so it was quite nice at the weekends to fly off somewhere and do some comedy.
How do you manage keeping the creative gas tank full while pushing yourself like you are?
Brett Goldstein: I mean, I think I’m mad. I don’t know. I think doing the different things helps the other thing. Do you know what I mean? Doing stand up, I find really fulfilling, and it gets my brain excited and working. I take that into the writer’s room, and then that helps there. I’m very, very, very, very, very lucky that I get to do all of this, but I think that each thing feeds into everything else. But yeah, I surely should take a day off. But I dread it.
You had an opportunity to write two of the episodes this season, one of which was episode six.
Brett Goldstein: Yeah.
As a co-creator, are you strategically picking the episodes you feel strongest about?
Brett Goldstein: Yeah, I do. I do, yeah. I’ve been very lucky in all of them, in Ted Lasso and in Shrinking where you feel like a pool. We work out the arc and the stories and we have everything in kind of columns. There’ll always be one that calls to me and it’s usually the fucking big sad one. It’s usually a sad one. I’m like, oh, yeah, yeah, I’ll do the sad one.
Let me ask you this. Do you feel a lot of pressure knowing that you’re writing for Harrison Ford?
Brett Goldstein: Of course. Of course. It is weird. That’s funny. I mean, it’s a funny question because we are quite far into it now, but I still—yeah, of course, you feel pressure. He’s always been so lovely about the writing that it’s hard to. He’s just great, isn’t he? He’s so good in it. Do I feel pressured? I mean, you want to make sure he’s got good stuff, but you feel that way about all the cast. It’s an amazing cast. You want to really—it’s fun to write for them all. What makes Shrinking really hard to write is there’s so many characters and they’re all brilliant and they’re brilliant actors. The hard thing is making sure everyone gets served every episode. That’s what makes it hard. Fitting everyone, giving everyone a great bit every week.
Yeah. It’s such a huge ensemble and then Ted McKinley gets promoted to series regular and I thought he was just outstanding.
Brett Goldstein: He’s brilliant, isn’t he? So nice to give. It’s the same with him, with Lukita, with Luke, to give these people a lot more range and they’re all amazing in it.
Forgiveness is so meaningful in this season, both for the person who did the harm and the victim. Can you recall a situation where you’ve felt the release that comes with forgiveness in a big way in your life?
Brett Goldstein: I mean, that’s a big question. That’s a big personal question. Yeah, I could think of some private stuff, which I won’t share with you. But I would say all of this stuff feeds into it and I think it’s true for everyone in the writer’s room, there’s always—this is stuff we talk about in the writer’s room and not in interviews. Everyone shares their things and you take pieces from it. It all ends up in there somewhere.
Yeah. The season 2 finale was one of my favorite episodes of the season.
Brett Goldstein: Oh, great.
Can you talk about writing the script with Bill Lawrence and Jason Segel and did it evolve after the initial writing process, where I imagine there’s some room for improv on set?
Brett Goldstein: Yeah. Well, you know what? I think a lot of that is Bill Lawrence directed the finale and he was phenomenal and he was genuinely such a brilliant director. He’s done it a lot before, but he hadn’t done it on Shrinking. I think the cast loves working with him as well. Given how big the episode is and you have got the Thanksgiving scenes, that’s hard to film. We thought it was going to be exhausting, but he was so organized and got through it all really quickly.
But whilst doing it, he’d have an idea like the moment with Liz’s kid when he’s puts his arm around the girl when someone’s like, I got the smart one. There are lots of little moments within that party that I think just came from Bill on the day, just really suddenly going, hey, try this and it being really funny and great. The script was the script and then he just made it a million times better on set.
Yeah. At the same time, your character is texting and of course, they all have their phones put away.
Brett Goldstein: Yeah.
I feared the worst before seeing Jason walk into the shot.
Brett Goldstein: Yeah. Well, I’m glad it worked. (Laughs) Yeah. Stressful, isn’t it? Stressful. That sequence. But again, that’s so well directed by Bill. He did such a good job.
Where do things currently stand as far as breaking story on season 3?
Brett Goldstein: We are more than halfway through, but we know how it ends. We’ve always known how it ends. We know how it starts, we know how it ends, and we filled in nearly two-thirds of it, I think.
When do you expect to start principal photography on the season?
Brett Goldstein: I believe, if this is allowed to be said, I think it’s in February, we start filming. (Immediately after this interview, Apple TV+ representatives said that it’s okay to publish the answer after the finale starts streaming).
Okay.
Brett Goldstein: Yeah. That’s exciting.
When it comes to characters that you’re not creating, what do you typically look for in a character when you read a script?
Brett Goldstein: Do you mean as an actor?
Yes, as an actor.
Brett Goldstein: G-d, that’s a great question. You know what? Weirdly, I know the answer now. It’s the same way I choose the scripts I write, is you sort of have a sense of it. I was offered something that was a big part in something and all the team and everyone were like, you should do this, this is a great opportunity, etc. But I kept reading it and I was like, I don’t feel it. I can see it’s sort of good, but I didn’t feel a connection to the character. I just didn’t. I said no and everyone was mad at me, but I 100% don’t regret it because I then met the person who played that part and I said to them, why did you want to play that part?
They said, oh, because I had a family member exactly like this. I was like, oh, you see, it was meant for this person. It really spoke to them. I think it’s that. I hate to sound like woo woo, but I think it’s all a bit magic. You have to trust the science. There’s an instinct. I get excited or not. Sometimes you think stuff’s really good, but it just isn’t right for you.
How’s the experience on working on Shrinking compared to Ted Lasso?
Brett Goldstein: I think in both cases, the thing that is incredibly—I want to say unusual, but it isn’t because we haven’t, is it, this is such an amazing cast. They have chemistry and they all work amazingly and that is incredible. That is such a lucky thing that you have this group of people that are that talented and that nice and that you can put them in any combination and it will always be funny or interesting. I guess it’s like that. The major difference is acting wise, I haven’t had a lot of fun on Shrinking because of the part, where it’s a lot more fun playing Roy Kent than it is playing Louis, but I found it incredibly satisfying and fulfilling and all of that.
It was so nice getting an opportunity to chat with you.
Brett Goldstein: Thanks so much for your time. I appreciate it.