David Fleming discusses co-composing ‘Superman’, blending John Williams’ iconic theme with James Gunn’s vision, and the challenges of scoring one of DC’s most beloved heroes.
“It was a privilege to be asked to work with it because it is a gem of film music. It’s a gem of our craft. But it was definitely a humbling privilege at the same time because it is so iconic.”
Fleming, who joined the project alongside John Murphy, shares how co-composing allowed them to tackle the film’s massive musical scope. He explains how they reinterpreted John Williams’ legendary ‘Superman’ theme, threading its DNA into the story to highlight Clark Kent’s emotional journey while maintaining James Gunn’s unique tone. Fleming also details the creative process behind character themes, tricky cues like Krypto, and quick wins such as the Daily Planet motif. He reflects on recording at Warner Bros., collaborating with world-class musicians, and lessons learned from Hans Zimmer about storytelling through music.
‘Superman’ is a character-driven story about identity and purpose, following Kal-El as he grapples with being both an alien from Krypton and a man raised in Smallville. While navigating his dual heritage, Superman is supported by determined journalist Lois Lane (Rachel Brosnahan), Jimmy Olsen (Skyler Gisondo), a band of fellow metahumans known as the Justice Gang, and his loyal dog Krypto. Together, they must face Luthor’s sinister plans, which include Angela Spica/The Engineer (María Gabriela de Faría), and prove that even in a cynical world, hope and kindness still matter.
Written and directed by James Gunn, ‘Superman’ stars David Corenswet, Rachel Brosnahan, Nicholas Hoult, Edi Gathegi, Anthony Carrigan, Nathan Fillion, Isabela Merced, Skyler Gisondo, Sara Sampaio, María Gabriela de Faría, Wendell Pierce, Alan Tudyk, Pruitt Taylor Vince, Neva Howell
‘Superman’ is currently available on home video.
Awards Focus: It’s so nice to meet you today. How are you doing?
David Fleming: I’m great. I’m great. Thank you for doing this.
AF: How did you first become attached to working on ‘Superman’?
Fleming: Yeah, well, John Murphy, my co-composer and James Gunn, they go back a few projects and John had already gotten started on the score when I came on. Something as big as ‘Superman’, it requires a lot of music. The scope is huge and quite honestly, I’ve co-composed scores with multiple people, Hans Zimmer, Gustavo Santaolalla. Oftentimes, especially on a project as big as this, there’s a two heads are better than one mentality. It was nice to be able to attack different aspects of the music from two sides, especially when it came to redefining ‘Superman’ and utilizing the DNA of John Williams.
John Murphy and I divided up the different character themes, but Superman, we both took different stabs at. John had done this really great guitar arrangement of the ‘Superman’ theme already, which was used in the trailers.
When I came on, I started looking at different aspects of the John Williams theme and how we could use it to deepen James’s version of ‘Superman’, because I think although he really embraces the spirit of the original films, it’s still very much a James Gunn film and still is very singular in that sense. One of the biggest tricks was how do we embrace this DNA and how do we do a loving homage and a loving cover and not be a John Williams tribute band.
AF: Yeah. At what point do you usually begin composing, as soon as you get the script or when you’re able to watch footage?
Fleming: It’s always different. Sometimes I’ve been hired in the script phase, which is always nice because you have plenty of time to think of ideas, but there’s been plenty of times where the footage is already in pretty good shape. I would say more often than not, and that includes ‘Superman’.
Editing is always happening while you’re doing it as well. Sometimes making a score, it’s like you’re painting a house that’s still being built and you’re trying to plan, but things are still shifting. In some ways, too much time can be a problem, especially if you get attached to things in the script and then they change when they shoot. Things naturally find a different life as soon as they get shot.
There’s pros and cons to coming on early and coming on late. It’s always nice to have more time, but sometimes it really limits the amount of second-guessing.
AF: You mentioned the John Williams theme earlier. It’s such an iconic theme going back to 1978 and is almost always expected to be to pop up at some point during a ‘Superman’ movie. As a composer, what went through your head after you were brought on and realizing that that theme’s got to be in the film?
Fleming: Yeah. It was a privilege to be asked to work with it because it is a gem of film music. It’s a gem of our craft. But it was definitely a humbling privilege at the same time because it is so iconic.
I think the way we were being asked to reinterpret it was helpful because one of the things that I experimented with when I came on was, hey, is there a place in the film where we can play it straight up, same orchestration, just do it that way? Although maybe it worked in moments, it didn’t fit James’ film as a whole. It became clear of, hey, it will be more powerful to use the DNA of the theme rather than the theme outright and break it down into individual parts, which we ended up doing to kind of underline different aspects of Clark/Superman’s story throughout this film. That became that became the trick.
There’s sort of three main parts to the John Williams theme. There’s the opening fanfare, which I used as a jumping off point for a lot of the action beats. There’s the main melody that a part of the of the tune, which was the thing that John Murphy had used for this guitar version that you hear in the trailer and that’s the part of the tune that most people think of.
There was this needing to score Clark/Superman’s purpose on earth. When the film starts, you see this message from his Kryptonian parents, and it really is crucial to his definition of his purpose. When that gets called into question in the middle of the film, he goes on this journey to redefine his purpose. There was this thread that was missing, and in a way, the Superman theme in its original form didn’t quite work and straightforward.
We needed something to underscore the vulnerability of what James had written and David Corenswet portrays so beautifully, which is a different sort of Superman. I remember I had a meeting with James, and I said, the back part of John Williams’s theme, there’s this major seventh jump that always was what touched me the most emotionally because the other parts are very strong and heroic, but something about that jump feels very hopeful and emotional.
I started experimenting and playing it over different chords and slower and James himself started getting emotional. It became the last piece of DNA that we needed and ended up threading Superman’s emotional storyline and really his character arc throughout the whole film.
AF: I know John was mentioning yesterday about composing a punk rock version of the theme.
Fleming: Yeah, well, certainly the electric guitar was a major version in his. James frames Superman in this film as—I think it’s written in the film as maybe his optimism and his positivity is the new punk rock since everything now has gotten so edgy and gritty and Superman is honest and trusting.
John Murphy had done this electric guitar version, which seemed to really work at this one point in the film. The electric guitar was something that, because of that, was important that we keep throughout the film, even when it’s not quite as forward-facing as in that moment. The electric guitar is present all the way from the beginning of the film. We had two world class electric guitarists at our disposal, Yvette Young and Andrew Synowiec, who played a lot of the guitars throughout the film. So yeah, it’s a specific character, and hopefully helps create another dimension to Superman in addition to that big orchestral sound that has been synonymous since the original 1978 film.
AF: In terms of the cues that you worked on, was there any that evolved the most during the composing and recording process?
Fleming: I would say finding that that last bit of DNA of the John Williams theme and where that found itself throughout the movie, which ended up being in quite a few places, was the biggest discovery throughout the process. Certain things were done really early on, like the Daily Planet, Justice Gang, and the Kaiju fight. Those things always stayed the same. But yeah, finding that last bit of who Superman was, was a tricky thing and the main thing.
A lot of it had to do less with musical adjustments and more about how do we really clearly underline Superman’s journey in a filmmaking sense. A lot of that was discussions with James about the story and bringing certain moments out, but he was pretty on board with everything that was happening musically.
I’m trying to remember if there was something particularly tricky. It’s ‘Superman’, so you just want to make sure you get it right because so many people are attached to so many different versions of this character. I come to the character from the comics and that was my big introduction. There’re certain people who are really attached to the Zack Snyder version. Certain people are attached to this Christopher Reeve version, the animated series—I remember being amazing. It’s tricky and I think James walked a really beautiful balance between embracing bits of the classic iconography while making it his own. I thought it was a really exciting take that lined up with my memory of reading the comics and it feels very true to the comics in that way.
AF: Were there any themes or cues that came about quickly?
Fleming: The Daily Planet was very, very quick. That was the first thing I did. Usually on a film, there’s a temp score existing to show you where the filmmakers think there should be music. Originally, there wasn’t going to be any score there and I thought, hey, that would be a nice place to inject a different kind of energy into the film, one that’s not mythic superhero energy, but it is a heroic driving journalistic energy. That was a lot of fun.
Krypto was actually—to go back to your question about what was tricky, Krypto was a bit of a tricky puzzle because he’s attached to Superman and he usually will show up and save the day in a really quick moment. I knew he needed to have a very short motif that could exist next to Superman’s music and could get in and out.
The biggest challenge being defining the tone for what is a ‘Superman’ movie, but is a James Gunn ‘Superman’ movie. It always became easier when you really locked in with James’s writing style and his voice and embraced that.
AF: Is there a studio that you like to record at because of the way it sounds?
Fleming: There’s a ton of studios I love. Some of them are here, some of them are in London. In this particular case, it was amazing to be able to record at Warner Brothers in Los Angeles. We have some of the best players in the world in LA and that stage has so much history. It’s the home of DC and the home of Superman so James was able to stop by the sessions . We had an amazing choir as well. I felt very lucky to be in town and it felt right for this film.
AF: You’ve had a chance to work with Hans Zimmer in the past. What were some of the biggest things you’ve learned through that experience?
Fleming: There’s too many to count, but I would say the number one thing from working with Hans is his approach as a filmmaker first. It’s an approach that allows you to really get into the story with a director. It’s not about, hey, this is my music, and we need to find a way to fit it in.
It’s how does the music unlock something that’s already in the story and find a new dimension that maybe the filmmaker wasn’t even realizing that they were looking for. He’s a person that there’s always room to make something better and more unique. It’s a really inspiring energy to be around. I think about things I learned with him every single day.
AF: It’s been a pleasure getting to chat and congrats on the film.
Fleming: Thank you, Danielle. Appreciate it.