Editor Peter Oliver joined Netflix’s hit series “Baby Reindeer” after reading the emotional and often uncomfortable screenplays by series creator and star Richard Gadd, becoming distinctly aware of the importance of how shaping the series through the edit could be helpful to others.
“Baby Reindeer” has earned eleven Emmy nominations and is loosely based on Gadd’s personal experiences. The limited series follows Donny (Gadd), an aspiring comedian who meets the troubled Martha (Jessica Gunning) while bartending at a London Pub and finds himself the target of an unrelenting stalker. The series balances complex emotions stemming from past traumas that have infiltrated present-day connections and has been praised for its honest and subversive storytelling.
Oliver received his first Emmy nomination for editing the fourth episode alongside Benjamin Gernstein. The episode directed by Weronika Tofilska explores Donny’s early years pursuing stand-up comedy at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, where he meets a successful TV writer, Darrien (Tom Goodman-Hill), who begins an abusive control over Donny in the longest episode of the series.
Oliver worked closely with Gadd and Tofilska to ensure Donny’s perspective was central to how the episode unfolded and noted how the editing process took its toll while wanting to do justice for Gadd’s story.
“I thought that I could emotionally move myself away from [the abuse] because I read it in the script, but I had this knot in my stomach the whole way through it,” shares Oliver. “The most painful moment for me is when Darrien asks, how do you like your tea? I didn’t realize that that really affected me until I put it together.”
Oliver spoke with Awards Focus about finding out about his Emmy nomination on the London Tube, editing toward episode length, balancing Donny’s stand-up routine with humor alongside his isolation, and the most impactful sequence of the series.
Awards Focus: Congratulations on your first Emmy nomination. Where were you when you found out, and how did you celebrate?
Peter Oliver: I found out about it when I was on The Tube in London. I was underground and knew the nominations were coming out, and when I came out, my phone was going mad, so I thought something must have happened. I phoned my wife, and she told me I’d been nominated, so we celebrated with dinner and kept it quiet. I also texted Richard [Gadd] and said we’re going to Los Angeles, and he was thrilled because we went to LA to promote the show a couple of months ago, and he was delighted that we’d be going out together again.
AF: How long had it been between when you finished working on the show and promoting it in Los Angeles?
Oliver: It had been about a year because I’d worked on another series for Netflix, “Eric,” in between.
AF: What was that experience like to re-approach the world of the “Baby Reindeer” a year later?
Oliver: It was interesting because I thought it was a quirky little show when we first did it, and then it blew up, and so many people actually liked it. When it first came out, it must have been two or three months after I’d left for the other Netflix series, and I didn’t really hear how people were thinking about it. Suddenly, after about a week, it just blew up. Everyone was talking about it, and people asked me, have you watched Baby Reindeer? And I was like, yeah, I watched it a few hundred times [laughs].
AF: How familiar were you with the stage play, and what were your thoughts while reading the scripts?
Oliver: I wasn’t familiar with the stage play and kept myself away from it because I didn’t want to be that influenced by it. I watched it after I’d done the original assembly because I wanted to know if there were certain things we could draw from it. But the scripts are incredible. Richard nailed them, and they were just beautiful to read. Then, I phoned my agent and said that I really needed an interview for this, and she got me an interview.
AF: You’re nominated for the fourth episode, which is almost climactic in its showcase of Donny’s background and how we got to his present-day situation with Martha. Were you receiving the dailies sequentially, or were you getting bits and pieces throughout production that were going to become part of episode four?
Oliver: It was bits and pieces. We started with the Edinburgh Fringe at the beginning of episode four. That was the first thing we cut because Weronika Tofilska, who directed the episode, had to go up there for the Fringe festival to get those shots. I’m quite used to having non-sequential pieces to work with. It’s all over the place, and I treat those the same as episodes, so I’ll just kind of cut a scene, and then it starts to get longer.
AF: How were you playing with Donny’s stand-up performance at the fringe festival and his isolation? There was a lot to establish about this younger, aspirational version of Donny.
Oliver: It was interesting that because the start of episode four has so many parts, we kept going back over the scenes because you really have to feel for Donny. At first, I was struggling because, as it was non-sequential, I felt like he wasn’t funny. But that was part of it. So, for my editing, I wondered how I could make this more funny.
Weronika kept saying that it didn’t have to be, and a lot of it was funny just because it was awkward, and he wasn’t great. What I liked about the sequence in the end is that it was even better that he didn’t get better, but his performance changed in his iteration of it, and so it got funnier. Richard was very brave in doing all of those comedy scenes. That self-confidence to be able to say, no, I had a really crap time is just incredible.
AF: Were you working with a full stand-up comedy routine and then cutting it down, or were specific parts written for each stage of the episode as we got further into the modifications of the routine?
Oliver: It was pretty much shot as scripted. At the beginning of episode four, Richard did a lot of different improvisations, and there were a lot more props, so we decided which ones would work. Then Weronika would take a look, and Richard would let us know his preferences. But most of it was written. You sympathize with Donny, even if he’s not a great comedian, but that’s to make you feel even closer to the character.
AF: Are there also parameters around cutting towards a specific runtime, and how much of the routine could you incorporate to ensure the natural flow of the episode?
Oliver: A lot of the episodes came in long, which was always a benefit because then you take out everything. In episode four, especially after the abuse, you need that breathing space for the audience. There’s that long voiceover over black, and you need time. The amazing thing about Weronika and Richard in the edit suite was they weren’t afraid to have those awkward pauses. I really got a sense that Richard and Weronika both wanted to make it something they were proud of rather than that the audience might think this, the audience might think that. They were trying to make the art.
AF: We’re introduced to Donny’s abuser, Darrien, at the Lunar Bar. Can you talk about balancing the power dynamics with how each character was filmed and the coverage you were working with?
Oliver: One shot in particular that I was very impressed with is when Donny goes down to pet the cat and then looks up, and Darrien’s so much bigger than him because he is already down looking at the cat. Then, you see that power dynamic, and it was always that power dynamic. You are slightly suspicious of Darrien, even in the bar. He’s quite intense.
Even when they’re lying on the sofa wasted after having taken drugs, there’s a power struggle, so we had a lot of conversations about how much we need to see of Darrien. How much do we see Donny? There was a lot of back and forth, even in that first scene in the flat where they’re talking. The Darrien shots were slightly strange, and then we stayed with Donny for the whole story about the wrestler. That was a Weronika decision because you’d ideally cut back to Darrien. As an editor, you’d go, what’s he thinking? But then it is really brave to hold for that length of time and then cut back, and he’s not interested in the story at all—poor old Donny’s gutted.
As an editor, you’re always tempted to ask, what are they looking at? What’s their reaction? Weronika brilliantly asked me to stay longer and longer and longer on those shots. It’s similar to the abuse scene where you see a lot of Donny’s face. We all know what’s going on, so we tried not to make it too gratuitous. Stay on the pain of the face, and the audience will understand what’s happening.
AF: As an editor, you’re watching those scenes of abuse unfold repeatedly throughout the edit. How did you manage to sit with the heavy and uncomfortable material throughout the process?
Oliver: I thought I could emotionally move myself away from it because I read it in the script, but I had this knot in my stomach the whole way through it. I thought, am I sitting weirdly? But then I realized that it is the impact of what was going on, and not only because of how it was shot, because it was shot brilliantly, but also to know that that’s actually what went on. It’s a part of Richard’s story, and it’s horrendous. I cried at the end of it when he cried. The most painful moment for me is when Darrien asks, how do you like your tea? That really, really affected me, and so I didn’t really realize it until I put it together.
AF: Did your experience with this show encourage you to take on more projects that help tell these stories?
Oliver: Oh, absolutely. I love these projects because they help people, and a lot of the time, I look for hope in the script. So how is this going to help other people? What is hopeful about the script? I must admit that the first time I read “Baby Reindeer,” I thought, where is the hope? But the hope is that Richard survived it. He’s a lovely human being, and he’s helped so many people because of what he has gone through. Those scenes, however horrendous they are, we have to go through that to hopefully help others.